We met with a pastor at our church today, just to talk. I have never felt so empty and hopeless. This is the worst hour of my life

Lou, please tell us everything about the visit and we can tell you if it is hopeless or not. It probably is not.

So sorry to hear this, Lou, but I'm not surprised.
Get the book Surviving An Affair and start reading it. You can download it off of amazon and start reading tonight.
Whatever you do, do not cooperate with any of her schemes to separate. Do not leave your home. Stay and fight for your marriage.

Yes, do tell us what happened. So far, I see a LOT of hope for you.

Not a lot of new information came out. I have been optimistic all week (except for the mornings). But today was the clearest she has indicated that she doesn't think it is fixable. She wants me to respect her decisions. She has agreed to 2 or 3 therapy sessions. I emphasized that she can't judge how this will go based on a few sessions. This will take time, with me, to change. I shared with her again some of the stories I have heard here. I shared again how enlightening this information has been looking back at our relationship - when it was good (which was not for very long) and why it slowly degraded.

I am in complete despair at the moment. I still think building love with MB principles is logical, but it is really hard to believe in logic right now. I am just hoping I can sleep through the night, which I haven't done in a week.

Hi Lou, we can help you but it is really important that you don't despair and that you pay close attention.

I would avoid therapy at all cost because that will likely spelll the end of your marriage. If the "therapist" suggests separation or divorce, your marriage is likely over. And most therapists are so destructive to marriage that there is a strong chance of that happening. [we see this all the time] When that happens it will be 10x harder to save your marriage. Marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. We regularly see the fallout from their horrendous advice on this forum. They are typically little more than divorce facilitators because they do not know how to save a marriage. They don't have the slightest idea how to save your marriage.

We can help you save your marriage, Lou, if you don't cooperate in the destructive plan of your wife. Here is what we need you to do:

1. stop going to "therapy" because it will make the situation worse

2. be as loving and kind as possible to your wife. If she has complaints about you, then take them seriously

3. don't cooperate with any "separation" or divorce schemes. Just say "no thanks."

4. snoop like a blood hound and don't get caught

If you will do those things, I predict you will save your marriage with our help.

I am going to reiterate that there is someone else in her life and you need to diligently dig that out. Once you dig that out, we can dramatically change the dynamics of this situation because we will help oyu run him off. If he is out of her life, she will have no reason to leave and every reason to stay and work on her marriage.

In the words of Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders:

here

Lou519,

I still think it could be someone from her deep past compared to whom you were 2nd choice, but he was unavailable or had problems. This current OM would then be a symptom of the disease caused by the first OM.

God Bless
Gamma

Go to your doctor and ask him to put you on antidepressants short term. They will help you remain calm and keep a level head to do what you need to do to save your marriage. Dr. Harley often recommends this. It's what got Markos through.

Here is your show.
Radio Clip of Lou519's Show

Lou,

It is my understanding that you called OM and spoke with him telling him to back off on texting and calling your wife. I'm telling you it is very likely he will tell your wife you called him and she will be irate. She will act like it was the straw that broke the camel's back. She will be angry.

Your marriage can survive her anger.

What's really important is what you do next. Her anger is partially designed to manipulate you to keep your mouth shut and punish you for interfering with her inappropriate relationship. You must NOT fall for this. You MUST without fanfare or any forewarning call or meet with, if you can, OM's wife and calmly (very important to be calm and rational sounding since they will later call you crazy) tell her...

"I just thought you should be aware, I recently contacted and talked with your husband about the quantity and context of his personal texts and communications with my wife and asked him, man to man, to back off. He chose instead to call my wife and tell her about our conversation and portray me as some crazy jealous possessive husband. Since your husband decided my wife should be aware, I thought it fair that you should be aware of your husband's behavior as well. It is my understanding that they are just friends, however, the level and extent of their friendship makes me uncomfortable and the fact she (and they) won't end it upon my rational and logical calm objections is a pretty strong indication TO ME, that their relationship is to some extent inappropriate. I apologize in advance for involving you. Maybe you won't be as concerned but if you want to discuss, compare or see any of the documents supporting the fact they texted over _____ times in the last 120 days, escalating to _____ texts in the last 30 days along with emails and other social media communications, all you need to do is ask. To be clear, as of now I am not accusing nor have I seen any evidence indicating they kissed, hugged, shared loving feelings or anything more than an inappropriate over the top friendship that making me suspicious of intentions and very uncomfortable"

You may actually need to email that to her instead, if you can, and maybe include a copy of your cell phone bill or something to help support your credibility (since you WILL be called a crazy jealous neglectful possessive abusive husband).


Again...OM telling your wife about you calling him up is completely a sign that he cares way too much about your wife's thoughts, feelings and her marriage. If he truly cared about HIS wife the same way...he'd keep his mouth shut. The fact he thinks calling your wife is OK demonstrates his over involvement in your marriage and if you don't call him on it...you are letting him "win" your wife's feelings over towards him as he is demonstrating an over the top level of care for her to the detriment of his own marriage and family. OM needs something more and better to worry about than your wife...he needs to deal with HIS wife and try to explain this situation to her and he needs to know you aren't to be trifled with...if the guy wants to pursue other women than his wife, getting yours isn't going to be a cakewalk.

Good luck

They did talk about it because they have to meet. Their group (of only 5) meets every Monday, and they're in the middle of a project emergency. He said he was very confused about the call and showed his wife the texts. She also probably thinks I'm crazy. But my wife was not mad long. I explained to her exactly why I did it, and she says she understands. It's only been a couple of days since the call, but the texts have slowed down tremendously.

I learned everything I could learn, and all evidence points to him thinking it was harmless friendship. I am out of snooping power at this point, anyway. She has changed her passwords and is moving into an apartment later this month.

Who cares what he thinks? Who cares what he calls their relationship? All that matters is that it is destroying your marriage.

You need to talk to her yourself. Mr.Wondering provided a wonderful template for you to use.

Have you read SAA yet?

QFT

1. Expose to OM's wife (that does not mean you let someone else tell her)
2. Call POSOM and DEMAND he end contact. DEMAND he never call her again. Nobody cares if he thinks it's harmless.
3. Expose to her parents, school officials, and her employers who are paying for this, friends, clergy, and anyone else in her life. 4. Read SAA
5. Go back and listen to your show daily, and listen to the new shows daily.

People have brought their marriages back from far, FAR worse than this, but you have to act! If you want your little girl to grow up with both a mommy and a daddy, then act!

Listen to this.

Nothing is harmless about this friendship.

Last year, mrsEureka took a plate of cookies to her work. She was working on recipes for a baking contest, and left a notepad with the cookies for people to write comments on. One of the men there though he was being clever, and wrote "Will you marry me" on the notepad. Let me just say that this side of DDay, you don't mess with the Eurekas. That guy now takes a wide circle around my wife.

It doesn't matter what other people think. Strong boundaries are tangible evidence of the extraordinary care that marriage partners have pledged to one another.

So my wife is officially moving out in two weeks. Moving into an apartment 5 miles away. There is no infidelity, so Plan A and B don't seem to be an option. I can't find any information here for what Dr. Harley recommends for a situation like mine - wife thinks it's over, but wants some time to figure it out. I resisted separation but she was adamant. I am learning about my LBs towards her and avoiding them at all costs. She does not want to spend time alone with me right now, but I am taking any chance she gives me to have a positive interaction with her, to listen to what's going on with her. But what do I do once she has moved out? She has agreed to go to church on Sundays with me, so I will do everything I can to make sure we have that time together. I'm also going to suggest that we do something after church every week, but I don't want to pressure too much too soon.

So what are the thoughts on non-infidelity separation at MB?

My thoughts are that this will be the FIRST time in my 13 years on this board that a wife has "separated" when there is not an affair. This is a major anomaly! A board record of sorts.

What is her stance on dating while separated?