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SugarCane,
You wrote, It's a very strange view of female sexuality that believes that confessing the past releases some sort of burden and makes the woman lose her inhibitions. I suppose Sigmund Freud might have said something like that, but I've never heard Dr H even suggest it, and I haven't seen it work for any women on MB.
Again, getting more or any sex is not my primary goal, if I had the choice of getting a full confession or never getting even the reduced kinds of sex I now get, I would chose the confession.
God Bless
Gamma
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Perhaps if we had moved away from the drip drip triggers, and if we had used marriage builders 15 years ago, I would not need resolution. For some people memory fades with time for others it accumulates like interest on a bank account. I suppose for some folks the interest is negative.
God Bless
Gamma Your resolution is at hand if you will just use it. You can use Marriage Builders NOW and stop SEEKING OUT triggers. You are actively seeking out the triggers by associating with the old BF every year. The memory won't fade unless you STOP inviting triggers and start creating a happy marriage. When the present is happy, the mind doesn't go to the past. Marriage Builders can work for you NOW. You can remove triggers NOW. Just because you have failed to do so in the past, doesn't mean you can't do it now. You are not a victim in a bad marriage, you are the CREATOR of the bad marriage by choice.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Again, getting more or any sex is not my primary goal, if I had the choice of getting a full confession or never getting even the reduced kinds of sex I now get, I would chose the confession. But it is your goal. And it makes no sense because a confession is not going to motivate her to change your sex life. The only thing that will cause her to change her sexual engagement might be a romantic marriage, something you have rejected. You have been in the waiting room of Marriage Builders for years talking about how it won't work for you. Have you ever considered walking through the doors like the rest of us who are in happy marriages?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Why won't you use this program, Gamma?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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SugarCane,
You wrote in red, This is not to say that the problems are of Gamma's making. For one thing, his wife appears to have had poor boundaries among men during her marriage. Her last known breach was a relationship with a man over 80 years old, whom she allowed to send her gifts. It does not appear that this relationship was sexual and I don't know how romantic his wife's feelings were for this very old man (and neither does Gamma, which is a problem), but it was still inappropriate for her to allow this man to court her as he did.
There is that issue for certain, had I not found MB I would have likely let W continue on with her "relationship" with 80+ OM4, I know OM4 met her need for conversation and approval especially and OM4 being an old player knew just what to say. My W still does not get that she can no longer be cordial to OM4's daughter.
OM3 is a strange issue as well, with OM3 trying to kiss my W in front of me in a parking lot last fall. My Ws concerns about HPV may be a further indication of a more recent indiscretion.
To be fair my W is extremely alluring and charming I take her somewhere once and 3 years later people ask me about her. W also is an unconscious flirt touching men she knows, women touch me but I never touch back.
She also appears to be happy for Gamma's need for fulfilling SF to go unmet, as long as he treats her well, which apart from making her meet this man last year, he appears to do.
W claims I treat her well and that she is happy with me, I can only tell you what W tells me. W does say that she feels loved by me and that my love for her was unconditional and certain throughout our marriage, which she admits is not how she loved me.
It is wrong for her to refuse to meet his SF need and refuse to seek solutions for the problem.
To make it clear in some limited ways W meets my needs, but W is completely frigid or so she says, so it's like dinner for one.
God Bless
Gamma
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Why are you waiting until AFTER you shoot yourself in the foot before you entertain the idea of writing to, or calling up Dr. Harley? He "May" sincerely be able to help you with the several decade obsession. You know this stuff. You just a little while ago advised a new member the following..... Frank,
Is the OM married, or does he have a girl friend, if so you need to exposeNOW! In spite of your participation in this disaster
#####
you need to destroy all possibility of OM EVER contacting your W.
#####
Do not warn or threaten that you are going to expose OM, don't even tell your W.
God Bless Gamma I hope you follow your own advice. LTL
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LTL, I don't get it. How is he supposed to follow that advice?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I completely understand that the affair, or whatever you want to call it, occurred before my marriage. The issue is my W lead me to believe it was not physical.
However when the preacher asked, "If anyone knows of any reason these two should not be married, speak now or forever hold your peace", that was a opportunity for my W to make her confession. By not speaking , or not telling me later, my W invalidated the wedding agreement.
God Bless
Gamma Just how hard did you push your wife for an answer back then before you got married?
Last edited by TheRoad; 07/31/14 06:46 AM.
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SugarCane,
You wrote in red, This is not to say that the problems are of Gamma's making. For one thing, his wife appears to have had poor boundaries among men during her marriage. Her last known breach was a relationship with a man over 80 years old, whom she allowed to send her gifts. It does not appear that this relationship was sexual and I don't know how romantic his wife's feelings were for this very old man (and neither does Gamma, which is a problem), but it was still inappropriate for her to allow this man to court her as he did.
There is that issue for certain, had I not found MB I would have likely let W continue on with her "relationship" with 80+ OM4, I know OM4 met her need for conversation and approval especially and OM4 being an old player knew just what to say. My W still does not get that she can no longer be cordial to OM4's daughter.
OM3 is a strange issue as well, with OM3 trying to kiss my W in front of me in a parking lot last fall. My Ws concerns about HPV may be a further indication of a more recent indiscretion.
To be fair my W is extremely alluring and charming I take her somewhere once and 3 years later people ask me about her. W also is an unconscious flirt touching men she knows, women touch me but I never touch back.
She also appears to be happy for Gamma's need for fulfilling SF to go unmet, as long as he treats her well, which apart from making her meet this man last year, he appears to do.
W claims I treat her well and that she is happy with me, I can only tell you what W tells me. W does say that she feels loved by me and that my love for her was unconditional and certain throughout our marriage, which she admits is not how she loved me.
It is wrong for her to refuse to meet his SF need and refuse to seek solutions for the problem.
To make it clear in some limited ways W meets my needs, but W is completely frigid or so she says, so it's like dinner for one.
God Bless
Gamma There are just so many more pressing issues TODAY rather than yesterday Gamma. You can solve her boundary issues today - no need for past digging You can solve her sex drive issue today - here it is BEST there be no past digging The romance is dead and lovebusting over the past is just digging a bigger hole. It isn't too late to start doing things better than you have done. Start NOW. You simply cannot afford to let today's issues sit burning on the campfire while you leaf through old photos trying to locate the turning point at when the fire began. You need to put it out, save what you want ot save and be safer with it in future.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Gamma,
From what I've seen of your posts and the responses of others, I should make a point that may help clarify my position on radical honesty.
First of all, I feel that demands are off limits in marriage, even when it involves a failure to be radically honesty. I am against demands regarding the meeting of emotional needs, demands to avoid love busters (including dishonesty), and demands to stop having an affair. While I think every spouse reserves the right to separate and even to divorce when a spouse does not meet emotional needs, or persists in Love Busters, or continues an affair, they should not demand a change.
The reason I feel this way is that demands don't work. They cause the spouse to be uncooperative and to lose their feeling of romantic love. It can even lead to hating the person making the demand. It doesn't produce the desired result, and makes the marriage intolerable.
Your have every right to separate from your spouse, or even divorce her. But you are being foolish to make demands. I strongly encourage you to leave the problem you are having with her past romantic relationship in the past. Don't bring it up again. Deal with problems of the present, not of the past.
Best wishes,
Dr. Harley
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Dr Harley,
Thank You for taking some of your valuable time to consider my thread.
I'm not sure what you mean by demands, but I suppose asking for the truth about something the other spouse no longer wants to speak about is a demand.
Which to some degree is why I thought asking OM2 would avoid that issue.
God Bless
Gamma
Last edited by Gamma; 07/31/14 05:09 PM.
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I strongly encourage you to leave the problem you are having with her past romantic relationship in the past. Don't bring it up again. Deal with problems of the present, not of the past. Dr. Harley advised you to leave the past in the past. How would talking to OM2 be doing that?
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Dr Harley,
Thank You for taking some of your valuable time to consider my thread.
I'm not sure what you mean by demands, but I suppose asking for the truth about something the other spouse no longer wants to speak about is a demand.
Which to some degree is why I thought asking OM2 would avoid that issue.
God Bless
Gamma You seem to have bypassed Dr Harley's main point, which is that your focus on that pre-marital relationship should now stop. Do you intend to follow his advice?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I strongly encourage you to leave the problem you are having with her past romantic relationship in the past. Don't bring it up again. Deal with problems of the present, not of the past. Dr. Harley advised you to leave the past in the past. How would talking to OM2 be doing that? We need to help you focus on following Dr. Harley's advice. You need to direct your efforts toward correcting problems in the present, and not keep being sidetracked by stuff that might or might not have happened in the past. The way to have a terrific marriage now is to do those things NOW that create romantic love. That is what you need to do. So, what are you and your wife doing to have fun together? Are you getting a minimum of 15 hours of time each week where you are meeting each other's emotional needs? If not, we need to start there.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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mrEureka,
You wrote, Are you getting a minimum of 15 hours of time each week where you are meeting each other's emotional needs? If not, we need to start there.
We get more than that and my W says I meet her needs.
In some ways my view of speaking with OM2 is that it is no different than finding a old diary and reading it.
God Bless
Gamma
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Gamma,
Your have every right to separate from your spouse, or even divorce her. But you are being foolish to make demands.
I strongly encourage you to leave the problem you are having with her past romantic relationship in the past.
Don't bring it up again. Deal with problems of the present, not of the past.
Best wishes,
Dr. Harley I sincerely wish you well and to eventually resolve this past pre-marital escapade in your own mind and heart. Your obsession is choking the full romantic development out of your marriage. And, it is seemingly all in your own hands to rectify. God Bless You. I know you are struggling immensely. LTL
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mrEureka,
You wrote, Are you getting a minimum of 15 hours of time each week where you are meeting each other's emotional needs? If not, we need to start there.
We get more than that and my W says I meet her needs. Doing what? In some ways my view of speaking with OM2 is that it is no different than finding a old diary and reading it. It is very different, and much more destructive to your marriage.
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In some ways my view of speaking with OM2 is that it is no different than finding a old diary and reading it. Does this mean that you intend to continue your quest to speak to him about this?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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mrEureka,
You wrote, Are you getting a minimum of 15 hours of time each week where you are meeting each other's emotional needs? If not, we need to start there.
We get more than that and my W says I meet her needs.
In some ways my view of speaking with OM2 is that it is no different than finding a old diary and reading it.
God Bless
Gamma Yes exactly right - that is YOUR view. No one else's. Honestly Gamma. As if you would be OK with an old diary mentioning OM hanging around the house and which you wouldn't get around to reading for years and years. Even THEN it would be an un-PoJA'd action which would revive the issue unpleasantly in both yours and your wife's mind. Why would you want to talk about this old hat issue OVER the chance to be in love even if it WERE in an old diary!!!!! There is nothing old hanging around your house except YOUR obsession.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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In some ways my view of speaking with OM2 is that it is no different than finding a old diary and reading it. Finding a diary and reading it is passive; pumping the OM for information is aggressive. Big difference. For that matter, even passive wallowing in mistakes of the past is a bad idea. You need to work on the present, not the past.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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