I have been mostly a silent observer on this forum for a month. I am a parent of a BS, my DD. Synopsis: My DD and her WH have been married 6 � yrs. They have three young children. Her WH moved out of the home in December claiming he just �needed space�. DD was caught off guard and confused. At the time she was 8 months pregnant with their 3rd child. D-day was Jan 5, three days before my DD gave birth to her precious child. The OW is next door neighbor (married). She & her H had become very close friends with DD and her H. The A apparently began back in Oct. So on D-day, DD�s WH spilled the beans, said it was over and wanted to save the marriage. Within a month the A was on again. He has also been maintaining the apt since Dec. By the end of Feb/early March, he moved back out of the home again. DD kept ALL of this a secret from us, her family. We knew there were some issues going on, but I initially thought it was a faith struggle because SIL abruptly stopped coming to church in November (so textbook, right? A began in Oct. Hard to reconcile an A with God). I finally found out in late March that there were marital issues. I didn�t find out until June that there was an affair, and an ongoing one at that.

Beginning of May (before I knew about A), W-SIL moved back into the home. DD was coached by someone familiar with MB Concepts (outside of this forum) that this was a good thing and that she should continue actively working Plan A (She had already been working Plan A for several weeks while he was still in apt.) However, he never ended the A. In fact he told DD that he would NOT end the A. Things just got worse by second week in the house. He would actively engage in text conversations back and forth with OW in the presence of my DD. He would tuck the kids in bed at night and leave, spending the night elsewhere. This was consistently frequent. His demeanor was cold and indifferent to my DD. The children would cry and beg him to stay when they heard the front door open. Here my DD is trying to comfort her children (5 & 3) who are crying after their father all while she is taking care of a young infant. WH has said multiple times that he wants a divorce. Typical fog babble - that he doesn�t love her anymore, that he doesn�t think they were ever truly in love when they married, that he can�t stop being friends with the OW just like he couldn�t stop being friends with her. blah, blah, blah, blah

At my urging, DD started counseling with Dr. S Harley in late June. DD decided to go on an extended vacation with kids and just returned after 3 weeks. While not truly in Plan B yet, she had minimal contact with WH while gone and it gave her some perspective. When she came home she didn�t want to continue this way. She packed WH belongings and dropped them at a friend�s house. As coached by Dr. S. Harley, She told WH that for her own emotional well-being that she needed him to leave. She asked WH multiple times over a 3-4 week period to talk with Dr Harley. He has refused every time. She set appt with lawyer to file for legal separation. BUT when WH came home from an out of town business trip, he retrieved his belongings and refused to leave the home. I spent the night that evening so my DD wouldn�t receive the brunt of his emotional abuse. When we went to bed, WH kept demanding to speak with her. She told him she was going to sleep. He was extremely demanding saying he was not going to let her go to sleep until she talked with him. He kept ordering her to talk with him. She succumbed. He kept her up to at least 3AM. While I couldn�t hear the conversation but bits and pieces, his tone continued to be extremely demanding as he talked down to her. I can�t tell you as a parent how enraged I was. He now claims he wants to work on the marriage, although it sounded like he was setting the conditions. He told DD that he still refuses to talk with Dr. S Harley. He will meet some of her conditions. My fear - She is back where she started in January, and in May, but now even worse. He seems to think he can absolutely walk all over her, talk down to her, and manipulate the situation. Now she �doesn�t know what to do.� As far as I know, she didn�t keep the appt with the lawyer this morning, when she was certain that she was going to file for the Separation. I am utterly frustrated and devastated for her. With WH�s stubborn and dictating personality, I doubt very seriously that all necessary extraordinary precautions will be put in place. Especially without direction from Dr. Harley, I fear that this relationship is only going to get worse because he has absolutely no respect for her based on his actions of maintaining this affair so blatantly, coming and going as he well pleases. Without accountability, how can it possibly improve? I am also frustrated that she was coached to stay in Plan A "as long as she could". I told her from reading �Surviving an Affair� that Dr. Harley the elder only recommended Plan A for TWO WEEKS! I�ve also heard for 3-4 weeks, but for months on end? I am truly worried about her emotional and physical well-being (she is still nursing as well). I think WH has lost all sense of respect for her because she has remained in PLAN A so long. So as a parent of BS, what is my role in all of this?

Steve Harley told her to continue Plan A for months? Has the affair been exposed to the BH?

She needs to do a proper exposure and they will have to move. There's no way they can remain neighbors.

And you're correct, Dr. Harley recommends 2-3 weeks of Plan A for BW longer for BH.

Thank you, BrainHurts, for your response. She had already been in Plan A since mid-April. So for about 2 months prior to speaking to DR.Steve. He was trying to get WH to speak with him, so Plan A has continued. Just now is she moving toward Plan B, but she has buckled.
Yes, the BH knows. Other couple have divorce in process and have moved. We just found out this week while DD was gone that OW stayed in the vacant house next door multiple times.

There has not been a full exposure. According to DD, Dr said to hold off because he was trying to get WH to talk with him.

During their conversation last night, I heard WH interrogating DD as to who knows because it is now evident that me and DD's two sisters know. He was talking fog babble about maintaining relationships.

DD already knows that they should move too because of the triggers, even though other couple has already moved.

Welcome to MB, WallFlower

I don't see any reason full exposure should not be done. Your DD is understandably confused. I would speak to her about exposing. WH will keep playing games and run her into the ground the longer this continues. You need to be a momma bear WallFlower...especially if your DD is too weak to do what she should. You can be kind and gentle with her but you also need to be tough before this affair and her WH does further damage to her.

You stayed the night saying you were wanted to shield DD from the brunt of his emotional abuse, yet WH pulled DD away to berate her and tear her down more. I don't mean to sound harsh, WF, but what you described is not being a shield. I guess my question is what lengths are YOU willing to go to protect your child and grandbabies from WH? Granted she is a grown woman but you can see she is falling down and needs help.

Black_raven - thank you for your contribution. Believe me. I have delved into the MB Concepts when I found out there was an affair. I have strongly encouraged her to do full exposure and move into Plan B quickly. We even got all the contacts ready and had a plan to get them out quickly, but then she hesitated. I accepted her at her word that Dr Steve suggested she wait on exposure. Believe me - I have been long ready and strongly encouraged it.
I really tried to intercede last night. Before we went up to bed, you should have heard his tone demanding that they talk. As soon as we went up to bed, he started texting her. Saying they needed to talk. I told her to ignore him; not to answer them. Then he called. I told her don't answer. She didn't. Then he said he was coming up. He badgered her to talk with him and wouldn't leave the room. I forcefully said she didn't want to talk, there was nothing to be said. That's when he said he wasn't going to let her go to sleep until she talked with him downstairs. She got up and went.

This morning I had a strong conversation with her. She just looked numb. I told her he has to come BEGGING, SORROWFUL and willing to DO ANYTHING to save his marriage and make this up to her. She acknowledges he's not there yet. I told her that she has to be in the driver's seat and there is no negotiation with him on her requirements and extraordinary precautions. I told her he is just in the beginning stages of feeling the consequences of his actions by losing her and the kids and as soon as he is experiencing just a bit of this (which is all part of the plan), she wants to accept his word. The biggest red flag for me is that he insists he will not speak with Dr. H or any other counselor.
I am that Mama Bear. How can I reach her and what concrete actions can I take?

Will she come here and talk to us?

She has posted once before. I will ask her.

Wallflower, an extended Plan A is extremely HARMFUL to a woman's health. Am I right in thinking she was pregnant while this was going on? Either way, I did ONE WEEK of Plan A and was ready to tumble into my grave! It is wearying to endure that level of abuse. It's also unattractive to be a cheater's backburner 'option' (and she will end up hating him too) so she is destroying her marriage as well.

Not that that's as important as her health, but it may get 'heard' by her more than considering herself.

We've had BWs who have lost it, full nervous breakdowns and the OW and WH get the kids

Not to mention it ages you, drags down your spirit as well as your health and makes you into a hag who appears dull next to the OW.

The wayward always wants to wear down the betrayed in this way; sucking them dry of life fulfils them and it also makes their 'choice' easier.

The best advice I can give you is hugs and lots of them. I wouldn't have made it without parental hugs. Also, give your advice firmly but gently. Don't argue or let panic win you over. You must stay calm though it must be so hard.

Thx, Indie. That is my understanding too about being in Plan A that long. That's why I don't know why the 3rd party encouraged her to stay in Plan A "as long as she could", even encouraging the idea of WH moving back in the house. Plus the time was extended when DD starting talking w/Dr. H. She has a newborn who she is nursing, now 6 months old. D-day was 3 days before she gave birth. WH left the first time when she was 8 months pregnant for "space". I can't imagine the emotional stress of taking care of two little ones and a newborn plus keeping it a secret from all of us. It breaks my heart that she has put herself through this.
I have tried to convey to her your very points about actually hurting the chances of recovery versus helping them, as well as the extreme physical and emotional toll.

They get very 'rabbit in the headlights' sometimes - all they hear is what the wayward says.

I have the teeniest tiniest suspicion your daughter has been telling you porkies about exposure and Plan A.

And he may never be "there."


Agree about the red flags but there are many, many more. If DD will post here, perhaps she will listen to others that have been in her shoes.

Is DD's father in the picture to speak to her?

What is WH's family like? Do you think they will support DD or is their waywardness in his family?

Sorry you see DD suffering like this, WF. Please hug her and let her know there is a way out of the darkness but she needs to stop being emotional and hoping things get better. Impress upon her that she needs to take the proper steps to recover her life with or without WH...her children are depending on her to be healthy and sane. That was my biggest motivation...my kids. Me being nutso mess and my children having a lying, immoral wayward father was throwing them to a wolf.

Hugs and prayers to you and DD.

What is her posting name?

6 months in Plan A is way too long for her. How is she doing? She needs to finish exposure and get into Plan B.

Can she get him out?

Hi Wallflower, thanks for posting. The biggest issue I see here is your daughters hesitation. She is emboldening his bully behavior by allowing him in the house and allowing him to bully her. This just makes him worse.

I am sure she misunderstood Steve Harley about epxosure, becuase it should have been exposed a long time ago. Regardless of whether she understood it correctly, she needs to get moving and do it now.

She needs to file for DIVORCE and get him out of that house. Pack his bags, call the police, do what she has to do to get him out.

Once he is out, she should send him a Plan B letter after she lines up an extremely strong willed, knowledgable intermediary who can handle her husband. Her husband is very accustomed to being in complete control of your daughter and he will be enraged when he loses that control. So, she needs to get him out, change the locks and go into hiding behind a very strong IM. I am hopeful she can find an IM on this forum.

WF, the biggest red flag is your daughters timid approach to all this. That just scares the hell out of me. Do you know taht women have nervous breakdowns and try to commit suicide from being in these situations? This is a despertate situation and your daughters mental and physical health is at risk.

Dr Harley only recommends Plan A for women for 3-4 weeks!!

The husband HAS to be ejected from this home immediately even if she has to get an emergency order or move out herself. She cannot continue in this way.

Can she move in wtih you until she gets an order to get him out of the house?

Wallflower, you can help your daughter with exposure by helping her write the letters and find the contacts. One thing you could do is call the parents of skankyhoe and have a discussion with them. Ask them to persuade their trashy daughter to leave your daughters marriage alone.

I'd bet my cutest pair of shoes that this drawn out Plan A and no exposure is your daughter's own idea and no one else's. Not Steve Harley's and not her MB buddy's either.

She's horribly scared. Not just of losing him but also of losing your support for recovery. You're no nonsense and want to grab this thing by the throat. She's lying to you to control you into doing it her way, the door mat way.

See it's not Plan A to be a door mat. Plan A spouses are tall, rock star goddesses who brook no nonsense. There's no need for nagging to speak to the counsellor- because you just pack their bags and ask them where they are going to be sleeping after next week while smiling above your best lingerie.

She needs to read the carrot and stick of Plan A and how Plan C ( for confusion) always leads to divorce. But I suspect the Harleys have told her.

I'd tell her you know she's scared and that even if she decides on Plan C you will still be there to hold her up. Then wait for your opportunity - she will eventually want out.

Has Dr Harley ever recommended someone beside the BS execute exposure does anyone know? This is a question of a nursing mother's health.

I'm convinced this BW is too chicken, but wondering if her mother can not just speak to the parents but hit all exposure targets in her stead. Would it make her daughter appear weak or does it simply not matter as long as the shame kills the A?.

indiegirl is right, your daughter is in what Dr Harley calls "PLan C" which is the most likely to lead to divorce. She doesn't have a chance if she doesn't get into Plan B.

My brother had an affair 20 years ago and his wife stayed in a "Plan C" for weeks until she was hospitalized with a nervous breakdown. My stupid brother then took their 9 year old son and MOVED IN WITH THE OW. <--------that is your daughters future!!

Your daughter is ALL those kids have so she has a responsibility to protect herself from her husbands abuse. She doesnt have the luxury to be complacent and timid. She is going to have to man up and start protecting herself and her kids.