|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,549 Likes: 10
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,549 Likes: 10 |
Markos,
I really don't know anymore.
She's often depressed, rarely expresses happiness...sad about her mother's recent death and family issues. She hates her job, expresses just wanting to lay in bed most of the time.
We get our UA time, but conversation is okay until there's disagreement, then it deteriorates. Affection isn't bad...not much rec except for a walk a few times a week. S. fulfillment is there, but can be hit or miss -- that obviously took a hit after her A, and there is an area where I feel she's a Taker and not much of a Giver to me, which I have expressed to her. She doesn't seem as interested in what pleasure I get from it, just so long as she enjoyed it.
I mean, went out for dinner and live jazz the other night, enjoyed it a bit but she's often a downer...and obviously she was angry at me at the time for my position with the job, so she was distant to me. had to drag her out as she was moping in bed, fretting over her decision about this job.
She puts a lot of stock -- too much in my opinion -- in her job status and salary, like it determines her self-worth or something.
She is my best friend, been together since we were 15...I think she loves me, but maybe isn't 'in-love' with me, at least doesn't make me feel that way. I feel 'utilitarian' to her...a paycheck, good father, takes care of the house. Or, it's fleeting depending on her mood; everything can be 'great' until something gets her in a bad mood -- can be totally not marriage related -- and definitely feel she cares for herself and the kids more than she cares about me.
She does express at times that she wants to stay married to me, and will say "thank you for being my husband". It's just so up and down, emotionally.
I'm trying to make this work...most of the time things are okay. I get sad and embarrassed because if this is better than it was pre-A, and funny it really is, then our marriage must've been a complete disaster for years. Good grief, this is horrendous. A marriage that far into recovery shouldn't be anything like this! I can't read the whole thread and your history right now. Is she in treatment for depression?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521 |
No, she is not.
I don't know how comfortable I am sharing her medical history here.
That may be for her to discuss.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 510
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 510 |
Gosh, she sounds depressed. Does she enjoy your UA time? Are you doing things she enjoys doing????? It doesn't sound like it. I think she sounds trapped...trapped into staying married. What activities would make her excited... She needs to be in a doctor.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,549 Likes: 10
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,549 Likes: 10 |
I don't know how comfortable I am sharing her medical history here. I'm not asking you to do that. I didn't want to give redundant advice if she is already being treated for depression. My suggestion is to get her to see a doctor about the behaviours you describe.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449 |
I don't know how comfortable I am sharing her medical history here. I'm not asking you to do that. I didn't want to give redundant advice if she is already being treated for depression. My suggestion is to get her to see a doctor about the behaviours you describe. She was complaining about depression on her thread in Feb/March of 2013 and it had nothing to do with the job at that time. She was advised to go on ADs and said that she would look into it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,449 |
hfd,
They read your email on the show today. If you have the app, it's at about 41:00.
Did you listen? Did you have your W listen?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
You mean a FWS can't learn, be redeemed, and KNOW that they will never go down that destructive path again?
They'd be willing to lose ANOTHER job, MORE salary, the physical and mental anguish, all over again.
A FWS never learns to not touch the hot stove after being burned once? Yes, of course they learn!! But it seems your wife has not learned anything since she is putting herself in a tempting position again. Who does that???  A recovered wayward does not do that. She has not learned her lesson and neither have you. It is shocking to see a betrayed spouse who is this clueless. I am astonished.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521 |
She is not on ADs.
I do not have the app; I'll have to wait for the rebroadcast.
I am not clueless, just frustrated.
Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
That last post that I posted indicates that you are clueless and don't understand the nature of affairs. I feel like I am speaking to a new guy. Honestly.
You can download the app in about 2 seconds and listen to it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
A FWS never learns to not touch the hot stove after being burned once? This is a very irrational statement given the fact that your wife wants to touch the hot stove again. She wants to burn you again. And this is something that Dr Harley mentioned today, that there is a decided lack of empathy and understanding about the damage the affair caused to you. Your wife does not get it all and is willing to do it again.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589 |
A FWS never learns to not touch the hot stove after being burned once? This is a very irrational statement given the fact that your wife wants to touch the hot stove again. She wants to burn you again. And this is something that Dr Harley mentioned today, that there is a decided lack of empathy and understanding about the damage the affair caused to you. Your wife does not get it all and is willing to do it again. Sadly, yes.
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521 |
Mel,
I understand the nature of affairs...I don't know that she does, or feel "over"secure that it can't/won't happen again.
Again, hfm can speak for yourself; these are just my observations and thoughts.
I don't have a smartphone to download the app.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Mel,
I understand the nature of affairs...I don't know that she does, or feel "over"secure that it can't/won't happen again.. This tells me you don't get it: ou mean a FWS can't learn, be redeemed, and KNOW that they will never go down that destructive path again?
They'd be willing to lose ANOTHER job, MORE salary, the physical and mental anguish, all over again.
A FWS never learns to not touch the hot stove after being burned once?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521 |
I understand.
That's just my way....to think out loud to get my head around things, from all angles, approaches, and experiences.
If HFM believes that she would never, ever touch the hot stove again, if she is resolute that she'd never walk down that path of destruction again, then she is na�ve to the power/ability of an affair? And could explain why she seems lax about precautions/protections?
All of this just really, really sucks and I hate it all...the affair, the OM, my pain.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
If HFM believes that she would never, ever touch the hot stove again, if she is resolute that she'd never walk down that path of destruction again, then she is na�ve to the power/ability of an affair? And could explain why she seems lax about precautions/protections? People who have affairs are ones who believe they are immune. Because they believe they are immune, they don't take precautions. Dr Harley mentioned when reading your email today that she seems to have no understanding of the damage she has caused and doesn't have any empathy. She is more worried about a job than putting you through holy hell again.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
That's just my way....to think out loud to get my head around things, from all angles, approaches, and experiences. To have irrational thoughts? I don't think reason is your friend and I don't say that unkindly. I think it is good to think things through, but not good to be irrational. You have had YEARS to understand the dynamics of an affair, yet you don't understand it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521 |
Maybe what I'm trying to understand or trying to accept, is that hfm either really does not understand the damage she did to me....or does understand, but doesnt have empathy for me for it. Or understands, but that empathy does not extend any further than her own feelings. What other options are there?
And in a way I can see that....while I would never say she feels 'justified' for what she did, I always feel that she is firm that there were, hmmmm...reasons? and she believes those reasons to be valid (eg. I was a bad husband, she was unhappy...)
And you really can't teach empathy...she either gets it or she doesn't, right?
Last edited by helpfordad; 09/15/14 08:15 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 810
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 810 |
If HFM believes that she would never, ever touch the hot stove again, if she is resolute that she'd never walk down that path of destruction again, then she is na�ve to the power/ability of an affair? And could explain why she seems lax about precautions/protections? hfd, yes, and it is odd when someone would be so lackadaisical about (again) stepping so close to the fire. Let me put it this way� my H also says that it is the worst thing that ever happened, and that he would never walk down that path again, AND that it is ugly and sick to even remember�. BUT� �the difference is that SINCE he never wants to re-visit the worst time in his life, that is why he is purposefully adhering to EPs AND tightening them so that every possible leak is closed. Do you see? I'm not going to knock your wife, because Dr. H has stated that many a WW don't show any remorse until recovery is complete and you are back in love. From what you've said today, recovery is definitely not complete. So�what can we do to help you to begin to recover your M? You do still want to recover? In which case the talk of cognitive dissonance to somehow talk yourself into accepting her desire to take this position really must be off of the table. YOU have to draw a line and take it off the table! It's an EP so you are allowed to do that! I have to ask, do you really think that your W would accept this position without your approval? I think that is what we all should be addressing to help you the most (if you think that is what you are facing). I did not yet listen to the radio show today, sorry, but we will listen tomorrow. 
DDays - six months of them THANK YOU God and Marriage Builders. We never knew that it could be this good!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,521 |
Blind,
I don't believe she accepts the notion that I, as the BS, get to establish the EPs.
To her, that is controlling, unnecessary, and a 'power' that she does not accept that I have 'over' her.
I sense she thinks "because he was a bad husband Pre-A, he is not afforded any special powers Post-A". That SHE will be in charge of HER conditions.
Oh, and yes...she will accept this position in spite of my feelings. This is a job she wants. Period.
Last edited by helpfordad; 09/15/14 09:03 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,079
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,079 |
SusieQ,
I agree 100%. I think they ought to go even farther and consult directly with Dr. Harley. Their marriage is floundering badly!
HFD, I am going to be harsh = your marriage IS floundering badly! You have now spent several days and lots of time here for not good reason as far as I can tell. All you have accomplished is to resurrect the affair and the OM by acquiescing to your W and by toying with the idea that you can assume the risk of another affair by not moving. The both of you seem to be walking on eggshells with each other. You keep mentioning that you are in recovery - WRONG. Your marriage is floundering badly = and by all this discussion of the affair with your wife after all this time you've succeeded in brining her OM back dab smack right into your living room!. You have probably dragged the timeline back closer to D-Day than you realize. You say that you are 'all in' for keeping your son in the same high school for the next two years, and that is the reason for not moving. That is b.s.! I think that your son is more concerned about the shaky condition of the M of his mom and dad than the school he could attend. He is probably afraid to express this to you.
It's very telling that your mention of your date night at the jazz performance resulted in you and your wife not talking and her getting upset with you. Is that progress? No. It tells me that her insistence of overriding your concern about the location of her new job she doesn't care for your welfare or feelings in this marriage. I think that both of you are unhappy and resentful. As I recall, your W refused to write and send a no-contact letter to the OM. So, now it seems she is continuing to attempt to manipulate you again.
No one is losing sleep over your arguments and your resistance to the MB program. Rather, I think most of us feel sad that you insist on continuing with Plan HFD,
I do have another concern. You mention your wife is languishing in bed and seems depressed, You also mentioned that she is not on any medication. These are signs that she is suffering from depression. I am not an expert, but I have been trained in crisis intervention and in counseling for a ministry at my church, and my wife has suffered from chronic depression for a number of years, so I do feel I feel that I can appreciate the importance of you taking action of getting your wife in to a psychiatrist (BOT a counselor) for a diagnosis. But, you seem to be just standing on the sideline and using her depression as a justification for concern action. How is that working for you HFD.
Tom
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
195
guests, and
51
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Children
by BrainHurts - 10/19/24 03:02 PM
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,615
Posts2,323,460
Members71,895
| |
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
|
|
|
|
