I/we have spoken about it for years, about seeking help and/or meds.

She chooses not to take medications for depression or anxiety or moods.

It is her body; I cannot force pills down her.

The most dangerous addicts are those that believe they have their addictions under control.

Dr. Harley responded to your email in yesterday's show. What did you think about what he said?

Then find some way to listen to the show instead of just saying it is impossible. You are never going to make it if you don't start taking some initiative to educate yourself.

I don't have a smartphone either. I have a crappy little $15 MP3 player from Wal-Mart that I use in the car. That little device (and its predecessors) saved my marriage! Personally, I needed hundreds of hours of education to figure this out. Hopefully I am a little slower than the average guy and most people don't need that much - but however much you need you will NEVER get it by just posting on the forum every so often.

SOLVE problems instead of STOPPING at problems.

Whatever happened to you guys doing the Marriage Builders program? Your wife was enthusiastic. If you don't strike while the iron is hot, you miss a brilliant opportunity.

The number one cause of depression for women is an unsatisfying relationship with her husband.

From your description, it is clear that UA time isn't the highlight of her week or the time she is best happy and gets to escape from it all with her husband. That helps to explain why there's such a huge emphasis on making her career more fulfilling - she is looking for that fulfillment somewhere!

UA time has absolutely got to be a time of escape and delight and relaxation for a wife and has got to be better than anything else she does during the week. She has got to be so happy she feels like a hedonist.

Unfortunately, adopting a belief that sometimes you just have to do without for a few years totally prevents this, and the program will never work.

None of this is a step in the recovery plan.

Yep - understanding would mean realizing that ALL of us would do that in that situation. It is NEVER safe to go back into that situation. The idea that it's okay to go back because the WS has "learned" shows a misunderstanding of how affairs are not something that only some people are susceptible to or that you can learn to resist.

I am waiting for the link from MB...will be listening to it today.

I can't force her to access the forum; I have stated repeatedly I'd love it if she at least READ the forum, as she I think is done with posting on it.

I think the online program could be beneficial, but choosing to spend $1,000 independent of her enthusiasm for spending $1,000 doesn't seem logical.

The reason she is lax about precautions is because her marriage is unfulfilling and she just DOESN'T CARE. After four years of talking about precautions and affairs but not BUILDING A GREAT MARRIAGE it is probably clear to her that that will be put off indefinitely and will never happen. Precautions didn't get her the marriage she always needed, and Marriage Builders always seemed to be about repayment for the affair instead of building a great marriage, so what did Marriage Builders ever actually do that benefited her? NADA. ZIP. ZERO. ZILCH.

There is nothing at all in it for her, so why should she follow any MB principles?

The rebroadcast is on now; I have no idea why you need to wait for a link.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
http://streamer.marriagebuilders.com:8001/prerecorded.m3u


I can't see any reason why she would want to post on the forum or do anything else regarding Marriage Builders. There's nothing in it for her; it's only all about you. All it does is remind her of her affair, because you act like Marriage Builders is only about affairs instead of building a great marriage.


She was enthusiastic a year ago!!! Don't EVER let an opportunity like that pass again.

Meanwhile, win back your reluctant wife. Start listening to the radio show and learning how to do that.

I'm sorry, but...I've eliminated AOs, I initiate the Rec Comp (she'd just lay in bed all day), I am a great listener/conversation, and the Sexual Fulfillment is not as often as I'd like, or as fulfilling for me as it seems for her...I give her affection...

I'm really sick and tired of this -- you try living with a person who you have to prop up CONSTANTLY...who is always apologizing for how needy she is...I do EVERYTHING in this house...the food shopping, the cooking, the cleaning...during her affair, while she was in grad school I carried this family...

She hates her profession -- never liked it from the get go, parents forced her into it -- dysfunctional family, always drama and angst...depressed, anxious...either won't take meds, or gets a prescription and weans herself off of it when she gets tired of taking it...

Wouldn't write a NC letter to end the affair, fought changing her contact information...refused to leave the job where she had her affair...attempted to contact OM a year after affair ended...rejects the idea that the BS actually can set the EPs...wants to negotiate EPs...is OK with independent behavior...

And I AM the reason she's depressed?

Than I must be CLINICAL in mine.

Of course she is supposed to be in charge of her conditions. Marriage Builders is a plan for joint control.

YOU have to take the initiative to create a situation that is a WIN for her, as well as being a win for you.

She should be selfish, and you should reinforce that as being a good thing. Neither of you should be selfish to the point that you want to benefit at the other's expense, though, so of course her taking that job is off of the table.

Christ I must be unclear in what I'm writing...

For the love of all that is good: I WANT IT TO BE JOINT!

I WANT TO FOLLOW MB TO RESTORE THE MARRIAGE!

I AM NOT THE ONE ARGUING/FIGHTING FOLLOWING EPS OR POJA!!!!

I AM NOT THE ONE WHO IS OKAY MAKING A DECISION IN SPITE OF MY SPOUSE'S FEELINGS.

I'm going to listen now.

I can't stay here defending MY actions because I have a spouse reluctant to work the program.

Maybe I need to follow her lead and give this forum a rest.

All of you have a good day.

HFD,

I have refrained from posting until now. I think you should prepare for separation if your WW chooses to take the job. IMO she is acting like an ungrateful brat!! That she is guilting you over this job AT ALL shows that you are not her priority. Four years later she still doesn't care, is clueless and/or insensitive.

Sorry you are struggling.

It is not going to get better until both of you accept that her needs are valid, and they get met. Not her washing the dishes needs - her being swept off of her feet needs. The UA time you described is not sweeping her off of her feet, and the "propping up" you are describing in this post is definitely not going to do that. So stop SACRIFICING to meet needs that aren't going to win her, and start WINNING her in a way that you ENJOY.


Kind of like how you have fought us at every turn.

At least me, HFD, I am HERE...HERE, trying to learn.

I interact with you, ask questions, strive to get it right.

Black Raven,

Thanks for your understanding.

I appreciate it.

You have got to save her from this, and it won't come by doing the dishes or keeping your son in school.


This sounds completely lackluster. The ONE thing that would have motivated her to realize she could get something out of Marriage Builders, and it sounds totally, utterly sucky. Nothing there for her, and that's the good part of Marriage Builders, so why would she have any interest in the parts of Marriage Builders that benefit you?

No reason to even mention sexual fulfillment, since that's not a typical need of most wives, and definitely not a top need for a wife in withdrawal.

There is no reason to expect that she is going to be interested in your feelings, your fulfillment, or your cares until her marriage is fulfilling for her.

She's not getting anything out of this. Maybe clean dishes, but that's it.