hfd, if only you would read looking for solutions, you would see all of this in a whole new light.

If you want to keep your marriage, you have got to do something about the problem I keep mentioning.

All this says is that you think your wife should feel different.

But she doesn't. She feels the way she does.

What are you going to do about it? What's your plan?

This is it, right there. You understood this correctly, and now if you want to keep your marriage, this problem has got to be solved.

I don't 'see' the problem you keep mentioning I see?

Why does she feel the way she does?

Because she wants that job for more $$$ and to use her degree.

I've been here for 35 pages looking for a solution...which I TGHOUGHT was detailed in the book -- EP and POJA etc.

But you know, I'm realizing that if I don't 'get it' that my wife choosing to take a job 7 miles from her affair partner, despite how it makes me feel, is really MY problem as the betrayed husband, than maybe I never will.

And I should stop wasting all of your time.

Thank you :-)

And we are supposed to believe you don't throw fits? You keep doing this. You are told something you don't want to hear, you get sarcastic, and you storm off ignoring all the advice you have been given.

This isn't the first time. You have been here before, doing the exact same thing. Where has it gotten you?

I haven't said it is "really YOUR problem."

I have said that like all husbands, you have to solve this problem if you want to have a good marriage.

You have to think about what would be an incentive for your wife to want to have a marriage of care for you, a marriage that follows the POJA.

Right now, she doesn't think that's worth it.

Yes, she cares about all of that more than her marriage, and more than her husband.

What value is her marriage providing for her? What value are you providing for her? Whatever value that is, it's not enough for her.

I'm sorry you are misinterpreting my replies when I am confirming "I got it"...meaning, I understand.

You're responses seem angry to me.

And storming off? I'd have to say that is false as well, since I initiated coming here to post.

But thank you :-)

You're not wasting my time, HFD. I disagree that it is your responsibility to educate WW at this point. She knows MB and doesn't care. There is no extraordinary care on her part by taking this job.

Anyway, I'm going back to assembling a table. Like Jedi recommended, send an email to Dr H and give yourself some self care this weekend.

Markos,

In retrospect, she really hasn't since the beginning.

Our dating, our courtship, our marriage was really 2 very independent souls who lived together...best friends, maybe, but maybe not made for marriage.

Many good decisions...2 GREAT kids...but never really interdependent, integrated lifestyle.

And honestly...after all of this, I'm starting to think that for our own personal reasons -- coming out of her infidelity, maybe neither one of us REALLY wants to live that way.

She has said often to me...over ALL the past 4 years: "I dare you to divorce me" and "I wish you would've just let me go" (instead of even attempting a recovery program).

That one is very telling, and maybe I should pay more attention to it...

No, you can't just weasel your way out of that. You are being sarcastic and rude to the people who are trying to help you.
I suggest you start listening to the things you do not want to hear.

I am NOT being sarcastic or rude; that is your opinion. I respect it, but disagree with it.

And, frankly, you haven't known hfm since she was 15. Yes, she valued $, a successful career, education more than me from the get-go. And then eventually our kids too.

And I have acquiesced too much for too long...lack of attention, little input as to kids, cars, houses, schools, money...

I'm embarrassed at myself realizing this now. As I said before, I have been 'utilitarian' to her for a very long time...but I can't blame her as that met a need for me to feel like I was at least useful to another human being on this miserable journey.

What are you going to do about your dismal UA?

How about this?

How about YOU get hfm to agree that I am allowed to spend $$$ for a yoga class we want to take? Or going to the orchestra? or a ballgame?

Oh, wait...we only spend on what hfm wants, when she wants...or where to divert $$ (NOT on us...but the 529 fund...the 401k fund...the 403b fund...etc.) There's always an excuse to spend $$$ everywhere else EXCEPT a cruise, or a weekend away, or a cooking class for US!

Or, better yet, why don't YOU swing by and just throw her into the car and take her to dance classes, or the jazz club, or for a walk instaed of being in bed by 5:46 pm every night after work and watching Real Housewives for 4 hours?

(Yes, NOW I am being sarcastic)

If I don't plan/initiate UA time, the it DOESN'T HAPPEN!(much like cooking, cleaning, registering child for soccer, oil changes, doctor's appointments, FAFSA forms, etc.)


I thionk one thing Markos and Prisca you fail to realize is that hfm has ALWAYS been depressed/anxious...even when I knew her and we were friends long before we even dated. Her depression pre-dated having a husband!

And when she was on meds once for it....she weaned her self off. And when I took her for help and she was on meds again after our second child...she weaned herself off...and when she was prescribed meds again this spring....she weaned herself off again by August.

There is so much history here that has predates by a LONG TIME marriage/husband/family.

And you don't seem to want to acknowledge or accept that fact or willing to be gentle with me for the conditions I've lived with.

It's a bad day for me emotionally.

I'm shaking, and feel like I'm being drawn back 4 years ago, my head on a swivel.

Just like when they worked together...wondering each and every day if this will be the day they make contact.

I'm not seeking a scarlet A, or punishment...that's above my pay grade.

I just want love and protection (more than just "you can trust me") and to never feel the pain I did 4 years ago. Never.

I would just like to see you start taking some action to change things. I believe you can turn this around, but right now I think you are being so defensive you are missing most of what we are saying.

hfd, I wouldn't fault you at all if you walked away from this marriage. I see no reason that you have to stay. Your wife's care for you amounts to a complete zero.

But I don't think that would be the most happy outcome for you. I think you and your family would probably suffer from that choice.

And I do think that you can turn her feelings for you around. I was hopeful that was going to happen last year when you AND your wife were both about to sign up for the online program. I really think you (like me) need daily motivation and education to kick your job up a notch enough that it can finally be effective in winning her over. But I can't seem to persuade you to listen to that radio show daily, I can't seem to persuade you to stick with this on a daily basis, I can't seem to persuade you that your UA time needs to be much, MUCH more enjoyable for your wife - the only response I get is that you are upset at me for "blaming" you.

I don't blame you for anything, hfd. I just want to show you how you can turn this around and end up happy.

I know, hfd. I am sorry that you are going through this. A drawn out recovery is a horrible thing. Prisca and I took three years before we could finally say we were doing well on a continuing basis.


I know, but the only way I see for you to get that is to change her feelings toward you by filling your account in her love bank.

I don't think you can get that by appealing to her sense of duty from being married, or her sense of owing you just compensation for her affair.

I don't think you can get that by divorcing her or separating from her, although I certainly wouldn't fault you if you did.

I think the only way you can get what you are looking for from her is to change her feelings toward you by filling your account in her love bank. I understand that since she cares zilch for you right now that is going to require nose holding to a degree you probably don't want to do.

Markos,

I understand. I do.

But when you say 'strike while the iron's hot', hfm may say she wants the online program, but she doesn't put her $$$ where her mouth is. It's fleeting.

There's so much I want to do UA-wise -- I even made a list for when hfm had time once she finished her grad program. But it takes TWO markos...I don't want to be at the orchestra alone -- but she needs to agree to spend the $250 for tix. Buying them alone would be an IB on my part.

And as much as I don't want to lie in bed for hours with her watching TV...I don't want to sit at the jazz club, or ballgame, or camping without her either.

When she's been down, she's asked about getting on the forum for advice...there are times that she hears about infidelity and explaims she wants to 'warn the world" about it, share her experiences to others who may contemplating it...but she never gets on, there's never follow through.

It's like a level of accepting misery, an contentment with the unhappiness of life. The glass is ALWAYS half empty to hfm. It's worn me down, and definitely the kids.

Some of this derives from herself, Markos. She was never that 'type' of person to do this...you know, I'm no savuior, but honestly it is I who is often ripping off the A from her; it is SHE much of the time that keeps it on herself.

She's an adult, and only she controls herself.

So what are you going to do about the UA?