Dr. Harley,

Thank you for taking the time to address the concerns from our emails on your show, and thank you for touching base here with me.

I will share your note with HFM, and hope that she will reach out to you directly to share her concerns and perspectives, as like me, she wants to remain in a happy, romantic marriage.

Thank you,

HFD

Hey HFD,

You came to mind a few days ago and then I ran across your thread. I'm sorry to hear of the latest developments, but I'm sure that you'll come up with a plan to move this situation forward one way or the other.

Take care.

Thanks, NW.

I'm trying. I am really trying.

Its very nice to hear from you, and hope you too are well.

I guess if I didn't make it an EP in the first place -- not working in OMs county -- then there'd be no EP to break, and this mess wouldn't be happening.

But I just don't see how that could NOT be a logical EP, you know?

Even if it wasn't an EP, it was a decision that your W made unilaterally, knowing that you didn't want it. Following the Policy of Joint Agreement, as you know, is foundational to a good marriage.

There was a thread awhile back where a couple's recovery was endangered by an accidental encounter with OM.

The encounter was entirely accidental - the FBW hadn't broken any EPs or anything. She was also quite repulsed and honest about the encounter. However it triggered the BH so bad he started talking divorce. Many people won't 'get' that - but those of us who have experienced betrayal know how deep triggers can sting.

Sure they should have moved away as a couple but I just don't think they foresaw such a strength of feeling.

Hardly anybody foresees that and your wife surely does not. She thinks the question is about her having another affair. Which it is - but not entirely. Even if she sailed through an accidental encounter - it simply isn't good enough. Nor is her prioritising a job, or anything come to that, over her marriage.

I can only commiserate with you. Limbo is no fun.

Have you considered moving yourself to create a good life (affairland can't be much fun for you?), perhaps even with the intention of luring her away too?

If you're going to stay for the duration of your child's education I'm curious what you are going to say to the kids about your wife's decision to work near OM? I take it they know who and where he is? I don't say I have an answer there but that's something to consider too.

Indie,

Let me say that for all my flaws, I do want this marriage to not just survive, but thrive.

I do want to move away, as does HFM, but again, not until S graduates high school.

She created a list of contingencies and plan of action for herself should there be contact -- and a list of actions just in general, even if there isn't, because her working there has to look different than when she worked in a hospital before. Working in a hospital alone was not one of the conditions that led to the affair -- it would've occurred anywhere given the environment we had created in the old marriage.

Yes, the kids know who he is and where he lives and where the job is. We both discussed this issue with them, and they are "ok" with it...I believe they have seen in her life the consequences of her mistake, her behaviors the last 3 years, and have allowed her to regain some of their trust.

I would also add that I've reflected a lot the last several days, especially about what Markos has said, and Melody...and Dr. Harley on his show.

I don't want a divorce, this I know.

I also know I've probably spent too much time focused on the "kill the affair" aspects of MB, and not enough on the "build a romantic marriage" aspect, and that HFM and I haven't focused our attention enough to learning mutual care.

I suspect that's one reason she's felt like she has about MB -- it's been too much a reminder of her mistake (and consequences thereof) and not enough of a plan to BUILD the kind of marriage she desires.

The coaching program should address this.

I am still heartbroken about her decision, the process she decided without POJA, etc. to accept it. So, I'm in between 2 worlds right now:

I do not want to Plan B/separate, I want a great marriage WITH hfm...but every day she goes to that job causes me pain.

Sorry, but, to me, that's worth about as much as a bucket of warm spit.

She's already picking and choosing which EPs to follow, so her word is worth zilch here. To bother with "contingencies" is a complete distraction from the elephant squatting in the room...that to just go ahead and take the job KNOWING DAMNED WELL how much it hurts you is just so freaking incredibly FUBAR that I cannot even put it into words. It goes into that "I don't give a damn about his feelings, I'm going to do whatever the hell I want" category that most find truly repulsive and reminiscent of an active wayward.


It is not your fault that she is choosing to hurt you.


I don't care how good or bad of a husband you were the last four years. That doesn't give her a pass to do this. There are still certain levels of human decency and empathy that must be followed in polite society and it's not unreasonable for you to expect her to follow them. Period.

There has to be a line drawn to indicate just what you will and will not accept in a marriage to her or else this is just the beginning of a whole host of "violations" that will send this spiraling.

To say "This is what it will take for me to remain in this marriage" is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Are you signing up for the online program?

As much as I loved my job when I was having an affair, I chose to have completely different one when we started in recovery. This was just part of the EP's to leave my job behind, together with those colleagues and all. I was educated as a professional book editor. But as I have good management skills, I work now in IT, as a project leader. The life afterwards has given me plenty of possibilities to still edit books, just to the other publishers and as a freelancer.

We started our own business with DH 3 yrs ago, just to be together more, to support this MB way of life, and now that we are both working on the same area of expertise, we actually have a lot to discuss and we are having a lot more fun than we used to.
HFM may feel that she has no other way with this job of hers, but this is just the matter of brainstorming, I think. People have different skills, they can even turn their hobbies to be full-time jobs if they thought out of the box.

Good question. I thought your W was gaslighting you about MB now.

Very confusing.

Please don't insult our intelligence with posts like this. This is a stupid thing to say and I do not appreciate. This is like saying "we are creating a list of contingencies for drunk driving." You must beleive that you can gaslight us into thinking that "making contingencies" to go work right by the OM makes any difference.

It is posts like this that really turns me off from reading your threads. I am not stupid and neither is anyone else here.

Its your decision to stay, which I fully expected. But please don't insult our intelligence by telling us you are developing "contingencies" with a wayward who is breaking EPs and doens't give a DAMN about EPs or your feelings.

You can put lipstick on that pig but you still have a pig.
We see the pig even though you don't.

Has she changed her position? My sense from reading these quotes and from what Dr Harley had to say is that she will not want anything to do with MB if it does not support her IB.

Oh

My

Word!!!!

I didn't even get to this part yet.

I agree with ML. That EP list is ridiculous.

Besides, the EPs at this point is a smaller part of a much bigger problem - your W's blatant disregard for POJA. Dr Harley has told you that clearly. There is no getting around that.

I went back and skimmed through these posts because honestly I am very confused about your posting. I thought the whole point of your email to Dr Harley was that you wanted to wait two years to D. This was your plan to posters who were encouraging you to move.

Now that you got Dr Harley's support on that, you quietly changed your position to one of working on MB again when you have already told us that your W has outright rejected MB, calling it a cult, scoffing at Dr Harley, and is gaslighting you and calling you crazy and paranoid....by giving us some crazy EP plan your W came up with. Huh??

Can you please explain what is going on here?

I don't think you are being fair to posters or to Dr Harley.

I should not have posted our conversation.

I was frazzled when I did, and that dialogue was between us, in the middle of an emotional disagreement.

Many posters (Markos/Prisca, Melody) seemed to insinuate that if I was choosing not to Plan B/divorce then I should 'make the best use of my time' and persuade her to get involved with the coaching program with me.

That was the position suggested to me.

Here's your follow up show.
Radio Clip of helpfordad's follow-up question