There is probably no one now here on MB who remembers my story. I posted here in 2002/3 after I discovered my WH's affair, then 6 months later discovered it had not stopped , then 2 months later a third D day.
We stumbled into recovery after I spent 6 weeks away nursing my dying mother. I thought we were doing ok, put my heart and soul into my M, followed the rules of MB almost to the letter.
The sticking point was the lack of cooperation on WH's part-he refused to go to counselling, refused to talk about the A, refused to tell me when or how it had finished, showed no remorse or awareness of the hurt he had caused me. Reading my old posts has been illuminating-how easily we forget the hurt.
Anyway. I thought we were doing ok, even said to friends that whilst I regretted that the affair had to happen! I thought it had truly been a wake up call.
Then, looking back, we started to drift apart again. I felt unloved, neglected, disrespected, and unhappy.. A friend asked if he could be having another affair-I said no, even though I had just told her that it felt like when he was in the fog.
I asked him 4 times to come to MC- told him how unhappy I was, that I needed help( domestic support is one of my needs, which WH has always refused to met). He refused.
I became angry but just thought, I must soldier on further. I was determined to stay married after having fought so hard. I started to think that perhaps I didn't't love WH since he was not meeting my needs despite me identifying that I was unhappy. His response? Nothing!
I told him all this one night. I became upset and went to the kitchen to make a cup of tea. I came back to bed and DH was asleep. It was not subsequently discussed.
So of course it should have Ben no surprise to me that in March 2012 , I discovered evidence if another affair. This time, OW was a friend of WH, and someone that we had socialised with as a family, along with her DH, when we lived in the same town a few years earlier. WH had been at uni with her though they were not in a relationship then. She had, I knew, expressed her love for him some 10 years earlier when we had been about to emigrate to Australia. WH had told me that!
WH brought OW to our home one Sunday when they had both run a half marathon. I made lunch for 20 so one more did not phase me. OW had a glass of wine too many and WH decided she should not drive home. A strange thing happened that night. I do not remember my guests leaving. WH told me I drank far too much, had had. Along conversation with OW about how angry I was with him. But the next morning I did not have a hangover. I later discovered that OW and DH had sex in my house that night whilst my daughters and myself were upstairs asleep.
AnywY, I confronted WH and his response? " That's old news". I knew something was badly wrong as we were irritable with each other a lot.
I told WH that I wanted a D and he should move out. He agreed. He did not plead or beg, just accepted it. It almost was a relief at the time-I had been so unhappy-I had even consulted a solicitor to know my rights before D day!
Three days later I checked Wh's phone to see if there was any contact between him and OW as he claimed it had ended three months earlier and the way I had found out was by picking up a message from OW's BS telling WH to stay away.
I found emails between WH and three other women of a sexual nature. One referred to sexually explicit photos and the need to delete them before I saw them. WH has much later admitted that he had been having sex with this OW( let's call her OW3) though denied it at the time. But admitted that they sext each other. Of the other two OWs, one was someone whose name I knew. We had known her since the beginning of our marriage and WH had always referred to her as " hefty". I had always been lukewarm about her, suspecting that she had a crush on him. I recall a party of hers we went to when I was pregnant with DD1( now 21). I could feel her friends eyes on me talking about me and felt uncomfortable all night. Now I know why. I suspect but cannot prove that they have had a long term A. They live in different continents but would see each other at conferences probably twice a year. She has remained single as far as I know.
The third OW is someone he was grooming. I found flirtatious emails, the most recent( a few days old) from WH saying" you are a very attractive woman and I would very much like to spend the night with you ". Again I was aware of this OW as he had mentioned her a lot at the same time reassuring me that she was not attractive.
This was all too much for me and instead of keeping his phone to check out his messages, photos etc I had a major panic attack and WH insisted I give the phone to him as he had an important call that day. Naturally he deleted everything.
So, WH moved into the guest room,where he stayed for another 4 months before finally moving out. This happened after I had to tell him again after two months that I wanted a D. He had originally agreed to tell our children with me but said we should do so when he moved out. When I finally did he refused to tell them.
I had been able to check his phone records soon after this( had trusted him up to D day and had not thought I needed to do so!!) and it appeared that he started a new A within a few weeks of me telling him the second time and before he moved out. My friends tell me he is entitled to a GF since I told him I wanted a D but he kept this OW(6) a secret from all, until I saw her at New year in his kitchen. I was very upset and he told me he had tried to tell her he wanted to try again with me but she " stuck like glue" I had told him I would try but not whilst he had an insurance Gf and he would have to send a NC letter or tell her with me. He declined to give her up " in case it did not work out" with me.
There is so much more detail but this is long already.
So to summarise, we have been separated effectively for two and a half years and WH lives a few miles away. Our finances are still joint and whilst I filed a D petition, I have not taken it further. I tell myself it is because the business of unpicking our marriage is daunting and knowing WH, I will have to do all the work myself. He has signed agreement to the D but not progressed it himself. He has in the past three months introduced OW6 -who incidentally is divorced herself but phone records show she was cheating on her BS for a year before their D- into our social group in the village where we lived for 8 years and where our social life was largely based even when we moved away. Ow6 is naturally 15 years younger, blonde and pretty and according to my so called friends, adores WH. They think he would come back to me like a shot.
So, a month ago, after much agonising and after having a serious operation plus facing redundancy, I asked WH if he would like to talk about reconciliation. He asked me to write to him to explain why I appeared to have a change of heart. I have done so and in the letter invited him to talk about our M, our separation, what went wrong. He has been accepting invitations to come around to spend time with me and DD3, and has taken me out for dinner so we here nice.
We have not discussed us once yet. Experience tells me it will be up to me to initiate and that WH will not want to talk in any depth.
If anyone is still reading this, my question is: I think my WH is actually a philanderer. I think he has a strong Narcissistic personality and needs the attention and affection/ sex with other women. He has treated me disrespectfully and cruelly. I am a bit co-dependent and desperately cling to the idea of security and familiarity of marriage-whilst acknowledging in my heart that WHAT is never going to be capable of true fidelity and love. I am mourning my marriage and the loss of the man I loved and married, who didn't really exist.
I don't re ally know what to do.
I do love the man I married.
I want to be married to the father of my children.
I found repeated infidelities unbearable painful and ended my marriage to protect myself-yet when I found out that he had replaced me with his GF( OW6) it hurt just as much two years later.
Please tell me I will recover from this and be happy again one day. Right now I feel that I will never be free of WH and his game playing. Surely if he really did want to be reconciled, he would have jumped at the chance. I should say that he has been persistent in texting me and emailing little messages and comments which seem to make it clear that he would come back if I would. Have him. And now, he is thinking about it. Fair enough. But I have the feeling he is treating it as a game.

If anyone has any thoughts, insights, or advice, I would be grateful to hear them. I found MB such a support 12 years ago.

Deluded.

hi Deluded, welcome back. If your husband was committed to every step of this program, then you would have a chance at a great marriage. [i will post the steps in the next post] However, I doubt he has any interest in reconciliation, but just wants to keep you around as an option. Most waywards like to make "friends" with their betrayed spouses so they won't feel so guilty about their pathetic behavior.

In your case, you would feel 1000% better if you would go into Plan B and shut him out of your life entirely. You would feel like a new woman and be in a better position to make sound decisions.

Have you ever read Surviving an Affair?

Unless he agrees to this whole list, you shouldn't even consider taking him back.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

I thumbed through a few old posts and maybe I missed it (and obviously your children are aware of somethings because you are separated, a divorced is filed and he's bringing OW6 around town) but are your now adult daughters and 15 year old daughter aware of your entire marital abuse situation.

They have been told, haven't they?

He's thinking about it? Woop de doo for him. He's sure he cannot be any more passive? Get you to do more begging? Write a letter? Why I am surprised he didn't have you fill out an application form. A 100 word essay on why you deserve such a great Casanova.

Honestly I cannot imagine why you've put yourself through this torture. You should have gone no contact ( changed phone number, email, blocked Facebook, banned mention of his name and third party messages) after the first OW unless he was truly remorseful and promising a complete overhaul of his life.

Given that he clearly drugged you to have sex under your nose he may have gone too far to ever come back. You must go no contact regardless. It stops his game playing and will allow you to heal.


It is natural to remain in love, albeit unhappily, while contact is resumed. That's why he shows up for dinner. To keep you as a pet.

Thanks to you both for replies.
MelodyLane-yes, I have read (and still own)SAA. I tried to get WH to agree to the list when OW1 was on the scene.
I've laid out the need for NC with OW6, but he just says that he can't avoid her as he is working on a project with her(this is rubbish btw-he really has no good reason to have much if anything to do with her, as he is a senior doctor in a highly specialised field and she works in Estates at the same hospital).
WH's refrain is that I have to trust him, hence still having always kept a pin on his phone.
I managed to check his phone a few days ago, and noted that he deletes all his call records and messages apart from those from me, our daughters and a male friend. So I suspect he thinks he knows I want to check his phone-his pin is the one he always uses. Hence I suspect he is playing a game with me. Same old same old. And yes, Melodylane, I think he wants to stay "friends". I have never been able to "Plan B" him because I did not want to let our children suffer-and WH has never been very proactive in asking to spend time with our youngest DD. In fact I have said he can see her whenever he wants but that I need to know. I was expecting that we would come to an arrangement that he would have DD3 to stay every other weekend and one night a week-but he has never asked for this and in fact spent the first year of our separation renting a tiny cottage with two minute bedrooms where he slept on a single mattress on the floor so there was nowhere for DD3 to sleep, also one sofa, no table, you get the picture.
MrWondering you have picked up on one of the things that is bothering me at the moment-I have never disclosed the sordid details to anyone other than a few close girlfriends who were sworn to secrecy. To my DDs, my MIL, my father and family(apart from my two sisters) I gave this party line:

"WH and I have both been unhappy in the marriage. WH dealt with this by having more than one affair. This made me more unhappy, and we have decided to separate."

WH refused to tell our girls with me. I did such a good job of playing down his behaviour that our eldest daughter who was away at the time(I told her by Skype with my sister standing by in the next room to cuddle her)actually sent hom a text messgae saying something like " so sorry you were unhappy dad, we all love you and want you to be happy"

And thank you for acknowledging what I have failed to see for years-that my marriage was/is abusive.

If (and when ) I go to Plan B, I want my DDs to know the truth about their father. I realise now that I am paying the price for protecting them-and him. Or friends in the village who mostly know only what he has told them( I had an affair, wasn't I naughty,it was because BS changed, and I would go back if she would have me, as I love her). This whilst dating women and keeping OW6 on the side as well! I know from my snooping that he met up and had sex a few times with a woman who he knew briefly at school years ago. No relationship, just sex.

If I do this WH will hate me and it will affect how generous he will be in a divorce settlement whereas at the moment I think he does feel guilty-whilst still treating me as his personal assistant which I'm sorry to say I've gone along with because of my insecurities about finances.

Most of our friends have tried to be neutral but WH has played the "poor husband kicked out of the family home whilst the W is still enjoying home comforts with the children". In fact, we have a large old house which requires a lot of maintenance-always been my job so no change there.

I think WH actually has me where he wants me. He knows my every move if he chooses to-because he knows i would never go anywhere without DD3 knowing. If I want to go away anywhere I have to ask him first to have DD3 as when I did not do this he kicked off about it costing money to pay someone(our old nanny). When I once replied to his question as to was I away saying yes , he replied" I know, and the reason you didn't ask me is?"
To which I bravely /stupidly replied: "I don't need a reason. But since you ask 1. You are usually away when i need cover(he is away a lot, most weeks in fact) and 2. You won;t look after dog and hens"
His reply: "You don't need a reason. You are an a*** for that comment. You'll need a f***ing reason when you want me to pay your mortgage."
He accuses me of this being a way of stopping him from seeing DD3!!!!!!

Anyway, enough ranting. I would appreciate thoughts on how to /when to tell the DDs and also if it is too late now to tell the village?

Deluded

The first thing you need to do is expose this and then get into a dark Plan B.

This is plane torture. As long as you have these bouts of contacts (crumbs from him) you will continue the relationship in terms of very small bits of pleasure and extreme levels of pain.

Plan B will eliminate this dynamic. For a short period of time you will feel edgy, uncertain and find no contact to be painful . But if you are serious about getting out of this torture chamber soon you'll look about and refocus your attention on the areas of your life you can control. You hopefully begin to fill your life and voids with loving and caring people. Mostly you start to take good care of yourself. See yourself worthy of love. No longer necessary yo hang onto a dream you once had but what is real and in front of you. These conditions leave you less vulnerable to going backwards. You will hopefully gain by being able to discern and be forthcoming when you are not getting what you as a worthy human deserves which is your dignity.

Please read these.

Exposure 101
Exposing to Children

This link will help you learn to use parallel parenting.

How to Plan B Correctly

Do you have a lawyer?

Good God. You've allowed him to teach the children to be wayward themselves. My own FiL did this too his son. Because his mother did not expose and did not leave the behaviour was normalised and passed on to the children.

Please expose and go no contact. It is tremendously confusing for your children to watch you condone this behaviour.

He gets visitation rights to them _ not you!

This is a deal breaker and you should just move to Plan B and file for divorce. There is nothing here to save.


This is a waste of your time since you know he is not serious about your marriage.


Plan B has nothing to do with making your children suffer. Your children have suffered because of the horrible abuse he has inflicted on you over the years. He would still be able to see his children in Plan B. [read the book!]


I would be sure and give them the names of the OW so they can all avoid them.


Its not a good idea for him to be with you when you tell the children. Don't lie to your children to cover up his crimes. They need to know all about his affairs. This affects their lives too!


You didnt protect THEM, you protected his affairs at your daughter's expense. It was NEVER in their best interest to be lied to about the source of tension in their home.


HE has no control over the "settlement" because that will be determined by a court of law. You need to get a good lawyer to protect yourself. If you live in a fault state, you can sue on grounds of adultery.


This is either because you didnt expose the affairs to your friends OR your friends are moral retards. Anyone who condones or ignores an affair is not "friend" material. This is why it is so important to expose the affair. People make decisions on half baked facts and the lies of the wayward. It is important for you to control the story.

I would choose to get off the CRAZY TRAIN and take back control of your life. For some strange reason, you have chosen to sit in the back seat of a car with a drunk driver for years. You don't have to live like that.

Get the NEW version of Survivng an Affair, go into a pitch black Plan B and get a great divorce attorney. Stop living like this. This is a life of NEEDLESS SUFFERING.

.

I couldn't agree more. If I had waited for my husband to agree to exposure, to heal himself, to discuss things I would still be in horrible pain. Because I am the one who makes the decisions in my life, not some cheater. My Dday was in 2011 and I was relatively happy within six months. Today I am ecstatically happy and have a whole new life because of the plans.

I'm just heartbroken for your children. They had one honest parent to turn to and you didn't tell them the whole truth.

I'm truly shocked that you told them that people have affairs when unhappy in marriage. Let's hope they never have a rough year in their marriages. That you did not tell them it was wrong, or show that it was wrong by cutting him out.

They love their father and even a three year old knows affairs are wrong. It is scary when someone we love is doing something wrong. It would have helped so much if they could have told him that but they never had your back up to do so. Instead they were tricked into sympathy for him and his misdeeds which you explained as 'unhappiness'.

Fortunately it is never too late to do it right.

Before you expose....

How much financial control does he have over you?


My theory is that most lawyers (like myself) are ADHD and most doctors (especially top end doctors like your husband who are the heads or chiefs) are typically bi-polar, narcissistic, egomaniacs. I'm guessing as such, he completely controls the money in your home and he's very secretive about it. Maybe he doesn't....I'm just guessing here.

Before you go running around doing anything....you need to protect yourself to a minimum. I personally don't see you trying to work a Plan B or a plan anything in an attempt to save your marriage. You need to kill this abusive marriage first, remove yourself from contact with WH (dark Plan B) to gain perspective and if WH has a change of heart (the gift of repentance) and is willing to undertake the work necessary to change and become a decent human being again and he retires/quit his job so you don't have to "trust" him anymore because he'll always be with you MAYBE you'll consider a reconciliation. Chances are....once you distance yourself from him you'll gain the perspective you need to say "holy crap, what was I thinking, I don't need or want this disturbed man in my life at all anymore".

The way you might want to consider playing it:

1. MAKE COPIES OF EVERYTHING. Get all financial information you can and make a copy. If you can guess passwords hack his computer records and copy it. Hack his email and forward EVERYTHING to a separate account in the cloud that you can access later and read. If you can get into his private office, make copies of everything you can there too. Information is key.


2. Sit your daughters down, by yourself and tell them the truth about your life. There is a thread here about how to tell children. You don't make excuses for your husband or tell them lies like "dad still loves you" because his actions say otherwise. You don't ask them to choose sides you are merely informing them that they aren't crazy about the source of the problems in the house, it wasn't their faults and their isn't or wasn't anything they could do (these kids often go one of two directions....overachiever route attempting to please Daddy or the detachment alternative route just closing everything and everyone out and living their own narcissistic life modeling Dad's behavior). You aren't trying to destroy their Dad merely put the truth out there like you should have years ago and with the hope that they don't repeat your mistakes. Apologize for adding to the crazy by enabling it and keeping his secrets. Teach them that when someone abuses you, that you don't have to protect them and get along for the good of everyone else (that's what you were modeling for them).

3. Hire a pit bull attorney. Don't look to your wayward husband to "offer you a favorable settlement". He is a known terrorist. His interests in "fairness" stop at his door. He has likely been squirreling away money for years into safety deposit boxes and/or mattresses. Your attorney needs to hire a forensic accountant to determine truly what is fair and then you'll be seeking 50% than fair.

3.a. - DO NOT SETTLE ....until you at least document the facts about your life. Divorce is a legal process that includes a period of discovery. You must utilize this PRIOR to settling. You are entitled to depositions which you likely know lets you sit at a table and have your attorney ask him questions that he needs to answer truthfully under oath. You can ask ANYTHING you want in a deposition. Also, even in most no fault states you can file a little motion asking for compensation for marital assets expended in pursuit of an extra-marital relationship. You file that (or include it in your amended divorce complaint) in order to make asking tons of discovery questions relevant such that even if he refuses to answer in deposition, you can file a motion to compel him to answer. You'll need to find and analyze his secret credit card and bank accounts. The bills will tell you the history of his extra-marital relationships and lead to more questions about who, what and where. His hospital personnel file likely contains more of the story. Write up and letters outlinning his misbehavior at work. You can even ask about the private lives of all his coworkers (since he has sex with so many of them it's again relevant).

4. THEN negotiate your most favorable settlement from a position of strength. You'll have HIM where you want him with all his (and his friends/coworkers) secrets seemingly secure in a little unknown divorce file at the court. The depositions don't go public as they aren't part of the file UNLESS someone pays to print them and put them in there (wink).

5. THEN after your deal is signed and done, expose him publicly. Give your daughters a copy of the depositions so they will always know the absolute truth about their lives and get to read it straight from their father's mouth. He can never again gaslight you because it's documented.

6. Do NOT agree to sealing the case or maintaining confidentiality. As long as you don't tip your hand that you ever intend to expose him (NEVER forewarn or threaten...it accomplishes nothing) you just act like "of course I'm keeping it a secret....you don't think I want anyone knowing our personal business, you need to "trust me" but I'm not signing anything forbidding me from mentioning my life...that's ridiculous, you may be a liar but I'm not.". His entitlement should cloud his judgment and they will forego a confidentiality clause as long as he THINKS you'll keep his secrets (like you have all these years thus far).


Did you know in the homosexual community it's taboo to expose or "out" someone you know to be gay? Well, very often the hospital community works the same way. It's taboo for wives, coworkers, friends to expose the infidelities of the "golden goose doctor gods". They all feel they are entitled to do whatever they want and nobody better say a word. A lot of times this taboo is perpetuated by the doctors wives because 2 out of every 3 doctor's wive's are 2nd or 3rd wives who are former affair partners themselves. For yourself, your community, your daughters you need to blow through this taboo and go public. You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of and the people in your village need to know that character of the man they call have in charge of their community hospital. His coworkers wives need to know to and be empowered by your actions. You may not feel an immediate effect but you'll be soon shocked at the support you'll find behind the scenes from other betrayed spouses that were too afraid to speak up or speak out. Your husband...then ex-husband PROBABLY won't care. There is a never ending supply of ego kibbles for top ranking doctors and what the "public" thinks about him is of no concern to the narcissist anyway. Exposure is for you....and so other people that might care will know who they are dealing with. As an added bonus, you also get to expose all the OW's that participated in abusing you and your family. They likely have spouses and partners that are unaware of their behavior as well. They have to be told. In fact, your pit bull attorney should be subpoena'ing them (and their spouses, if married) and then deposing them too....in an effort to find out where your marital assets were spent behind your back.

Again, I don't think there is a marriage to save here but I completely understand your desire to somehow save this marriage and family. Your "taker" has endured so much abuse and neglect that it feels you are owed a recovery after all this give, give, give. Problem is...your husband doesn't respect you or care. His taker runs his life and he does what he pleases to everyone and anyone he chooses. He has no use for your taker, the only reason he tolerates you in his life at all is due to your willingness to give, give, give. Take that away and MAYBE you'll actually get a chance. What I'm saying is....your way the last 12 years hasn't worked and it's not going to ever work getting him back. Do what I've recommended above and if by chance there is a decent redeemable person somewhere inside of WH you may actually wake it up and get your a shot at a REAL recovery. Keeping his secrets only keeps both of you living a lie. There's no recovery to be had in lies. Maybe the loss of respect and admiration in the community will mean something to him (I doubt it but you never know). Maybe a learned or respected friend or colleague can then hold a mirror up to your WH and he'll be shocked as his behavior and change his ways (I doubt it but you never know). Exposure is your (and, ironically, his) best shot at actually saving your marriage; however, you've waited this long and because I believe you are financially beholden to him I think you should secure your financial settlement in writing and get into a dark Plan B before you do any full exposure.

Finally, maybe you've become attached to a certain pride of being the wife of a prominent local physician and you fear exposing him somehow diminishes your value or status in the community. This fear is a lie. Your social status isn't real if friends, family, neighbors, etc, don't really know you and your challenges in life. It's merely an illusion (the good wife and mother of three beautiful daughters living in the gorgeous old restored home). You'll find that by being real and honest with friends, family and even acquaintances (people you've forever held back from developing intimacy with for fear they'd learn your secrets) actually brings you MORE love and admiration than when you were maintaining appearances or shuttering yourself off from the outside world as you lives a solitude depressed life of neglect.

I've got to run.

Godspeed,

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - Also considering selling that big old house. One of the biggest mistakes women make is trying to keep and maintain (usually for the kids) the big expensive home at the expense of trading cash/liquid assets for such right. Then they find themselves in a home they can't afford and oversized for their needs. Get cash and move somewhere affordable. Your remaining daughter will be fine. Sell the house while the market is currently good and cash out on any and all equity.

I thought the exact same thing. Might make for some interesting questions for the depositions (of WH and that particular OW).

I don't know if you wrote this because she referred above to her third daughter as DD3 but such daughter appears to be 15 years old now so really it's DD15. The 2 older ones are like 21 and 22.

Please tell us about your daughters. What are they like? How has this situation shaped them (as far as you can tell)?

Lastly,

I have a relative that divorced her abusive bipolar alcoholic ex-wayward husband about 5 years ago. He was the head of large hospital down south. They were married about 30-35 years and had 2 children about 10 or 12 years old at the time. He fought some mean and dirty during the divorce process and had prepared so well hiding money and the like that she just wanted it done and to be away from him soooooo very bad that she finally agreed to a very unfavorable settlement just so she could survive. Hindsight, it was a tactical mistake. She's in her 50's now with very little retirement money and with primary custody she can't really work full time yet. As the children near maturity child support is ending and so will alimony. Fortunately she's very highly educated herself and probably will be OK but strategically she made a huge error subjecting herself to his continued abuse (for the kids) until, in the divorce process, she could take it no more.

This is another reason you need to hire a pit bull attorney who will fight tooth and nail for you while you remain in a dark Plan B sheltered away from his torment. He is NOT going to like you doing this to him. As a narcissist he WILL feel attacked and threatened and DEMAND access to you, the house, the kids and it will get real ugly. He's a bully and any access and control he has over you will only make your life miserable as he attempts to manipulate you (just like he bullies and manipulates everyone at work daily) to succumb to his personal wishes and desires. You simply can't negotiate with a terrorist.....but he will demand it. When that fails, he'll try to manipulate the kids or he'll tell you he's sorry and that he wants to NOW reconcile with you. Don't fall for it. It's about control and manipulation and ACCESS to you. I'm warning you...it'll get bad and every inch of you will want to believe him and HOPE you can make something of this marriage and family however, you mantra should be and remain (which you communicate through your attorney) that IF he truly wants to recover with you he will immediately sign a pre-nup giving you say 75% of the marital assets and sole custody of the remaining daughter BEFORE you will even speak to him about it. Make him put his money where his lying mouth is UPFRONT before it's even a consideration. Maybe also require that he quit that job too. That's the only way you'll know it's serious and not a manipulation to get you to play into his bi-polar narcissistic game.

You can always recover AFTER the divorce. It's a very long shot and not one you are likely to want....but it's the only way you'll know it's for real and not another game of his. A new relationship built on truth with all the lies and adultery behind you and from the bargaining position of a single woman free to do as she pleases and with her own money and bank accounts is the only way to actually recovery this marriage. It HAS happened.

Mr. W

Thank you to everyone for the replies. Wow, some of that is very hard to read, especially the stuff about being honest with the girls.
Oh and yes, sorry got my MB terminology wrong, my youngest daughter is DD15 (not DD (number)3).
This is really worrying me , especially as DD21 has told me that she doesn't want to "be involved" by which she means she doesn't want me to tell her any details.
They all have apparently told MIL (who told WH) that when I talk about WH I am very angry. So they avoid the subject, I suppose.
But I agree , I need to make this right. But how will I do it without my DDs thinking I am attacking their father?
Indiegirl, I thought I was telling them an affair is wrong by giving that as the reason for our separation. I wanted to take the approach that his behaviour was unacceptable, rather than that he is a bad person.
I am actually a very fair, honest person of integrity-or have always tried to be. Maybe that is why I have had so much emotional turmoil over all of this-cognitive dissonance.
MrWondering thank you for all your advice-I should have said that I live in the UK so much of what you have advised is not applicable. My divorce lawyer is not the biggest, baddest divorce lawyer I can get . he's terribly English-so I will be finding another. They are all so terribly reasonable here. He advised me not to file on grounds of adultery as "no one does that now" as it is no-blame. So I have started the process on grounds of unreasonable behaviour which he has accepted.I could withdraw the divorce petition and re-file but I don't think it will matter as I don't think we can do the deposition and subpeona stuff anyway much as i would love to. I know that WH was warned by his Medical Director over inappropriate words (I can guess what they were) sent in an email. The MD was a friend so no further action was taken and that may be appropriate anyway(in isolation)
Also, you are spot on about lots-he IS a narcissist and he does charm those who are useful to him and disregard those who are not. To them, he can be quite rude and dismissive. He is well respected professionally(I think, it is mostly WH who has told me that!)
You might not be right about the finances though-he has always left that to me even now. Other than complain now and again about what I spend he leaves it to me, in fact he doesn't even have online access to our joint account so asks me to do thinks that need doing. Muggins here (perhaps I should change my name!) even set up the direct debit and deposit on his rental property because it had to be done that day!
I am not proud of how much of a doormat I have been. That is not me at all any other part of my life!
I am actually a doctor myself, and have been a partner in a GP (family medicine) practice and now am a senior member of our local and regional health community. I therefore worry about hacking into his stuff(difficult now he lives separately) because that might get me in hot water professionally. Also, until we are financially separated I don't want him to lose his livelihood either!
I think the fear has come from years of WH telling me I have low self esteem, if you hear it enough you start to believe it. I have been a life support system for that man for 20 years and yet it is obvious by his actions that he does not care for me, just uses me for convenience.
I do want my fair share though-and that includes recompense for working part time and choosing a family-friendly career (not my first choice, I should have been a physician like him) and following him to UK when I grew up and always planned to stay in Australia and told him that too before we married.
Now I am tied whilst the DDs are at least at Uni.
MrWondering you are also spot on about the status thing for me, but I have come to terms with that.
And also the hospital cover up-wow that is so true. I found out within the last two years that in two of the previous places we have lived, there were rumours or a known affair -one of my friends said " no-one tells a newly wed with young children that her husband is a player"-really???
And I heard from two separate sources indirectly that at another place, when the older DDs were 5 and 4 respectively, that there were rumours about a pregnancy. How blood-curdlingly awful to face the prospect of a knock on the door from a half sibling one day.
Thank you all.
So-should I talk to the DDs together? The older two are at Uni but I could go and see them , my feeling is I should talk to them separately.
When it comes to the MIL-she idolises WH and will blame me for ANY AND ALL of his behaviour despite the evidence of her own eyes. But I should tell my Dad. Although when i told him about the first A, about 3 yrs ago, and that I was unhappy, he told me that "men have affairs because they are not getting enough sex at home. "
If only it was that simple. He is more receptive now I think having seen, as he said " the look" on my face.
Finally-how do I identify a pit-bull lawyer?

Deluded.

Your ability to find a pit bull lawyer largely depends on how much money you have.
If you are affluent, and live in Hollywood you would get an attorney that represents movie stars that get divorced every couple years.
If you are not affluent, you should ask around social circles (quietly) for lawyers with satisfied clients.
If you are poor, then you will be getting an attorney that lives offf of ramen noodles because all of his money is paid to student loans and lives hand to mouth.

Calmly tell them the truth...your father has cheated on me with several women throughout our marriage...long before we ever separated. I am tired of protecting his adultery and made a grave mistake in doing so. I have been very unhappy and have been repeatedly hurt by your father. He does not care. We will be divorcing.

You don't have to say anything like your dad is a bad person. They will form their own opinions. Stick to the facts.

Thanks for that. Those words seem very fair Black Raven. Jedi, there must be more to it than cash! My current lawyer is expensive but says best he can get is 50% or maybe a tiny bit more and he seems intent on being gentlemanly!

My girls all have reacted to this situation in different ways. DD21 burst into tears when I told her and now won't hear anything about it. DD20 also cried but now after a conversation where she told me how weak she and her friends thought another girl was for taking a cheating BF back, I asked her if she thought I was weak I also told her I thought cheating us wrong and should not be tolerated and then shot myself in the foot by saying that I had the children to think about. I know!! She said she just wants me to be happy.
DD15 is angry with her Dad but won't talk about it with anyone. Maybe because she is my youngest and more present, I am very aware that her relationship with her Dad is going slowly to hell in a handcart. She told her sister a few months ago that WH does not deserve a GF.
I really want to make this right. I am well aware that they see me setting an example and worry that they have learnt to accept bad treatment.