I'm not either. My choices were local yokels and a few statewide "agencies" that send someone in from out of town. This guy was local and talked a good game but I don't think he does much domestic situation work.

Think it matters much that she's aware of surveillance? She's already out of the house so I wonder if it really effects how they're conducting the affair.

Yes,

I do think it will affect her behavior.
Do you drive more carefully when you know a police officer is watching you? I do.

EDIT: It's not necessarily a bad thing either. It certainly puts more stress on the affair

I've thought that it's probably stretched the angry period after exposure a bit, as she is going to feel justified in her fog babble about me being "controlling", and whatever support group of new friends is probably also going validate her on that.

That bothers me a bit but I feel like discovery of snooping has to be common/obvious to the WS after exposure.

Since you still have WW on Facebook, perhaps you can use that as a third party Plan A advantage, since you have so little real life communication with her. For instance posting things that are fun improvements you are making to your self/life that might fill WW love bank. Post cute profile picts. Even post about things that involve her and tag her on it, like throw back Thursday pics of times you were together and happy, or a pict of a place you visit with a post about how it reminds you of the time you and WW were there for (event).

If she is using it to keep tabs on you, might as well capitalize on it.

But I would suggest not going from one post a month to ten posts a day, just a few subtle posts here and there.

This is a great idea, thank you.

Interesting discussion with MIL yesterday. She agreed to relay letters to WW for me since I don't have her phone # now. This was an idea that came out of the discussion with SIL's husband.

WW and I used to exchange handwritten notes a lot and she really enjoys them (she always kept a collection of all the ones I'd written her going back to our dating days), so I see this as a great Plan A opportunity.

WW apparently told MIL about her actions that "I don't expect you to approve or understand". MIL seems pretty tore up about this but it sounds like fog babble to me.

I've been working on a list of topics for notes. Good memories or times together, things I love about her, things I'm changing for the better, etc. Anything I'm not thinking of here on good topics for a Plan A love note?

WW just contacted me via Facebook. I had sent her a Facebook message yesterday informing her of my intention to keep what she had left at the marital home (pet, property) and relocate it to my new house, as well as stating that I still believe in the recovery of our marriage and am willing to work to provide her a marriage where she will feel loved, valued, understood, etc. Also gave her some positive updates on situations in social circles we used to share such as church, and told her that I loved her, was praying for us, and thinking of her.

Her response was very businesslike and restrained. She at no point acknowledged the A or the restraining order, and said she had not contacted me because my behavior was scaring her. Also stated that she does not trust me, however, she said she knew she needed to contact me so that "we can move forward". Her family has expressed a lot of disgust with knowing she refuses to contact me so I wonder if she felt put up to this.

There is some discussion about property division and bills. In my message I had asked her about some joint bills we have and asked for her assistance in working out a way for us to transparently pay them. In her response she hints a lot at me putting money back into our joint checking account so they can be paid that way, and tries to provide justification for how she had misused it before I stopped putting my paychecks into it. I'm not falling for that.

She gave me some passwords for joint bills she had managed in the past and asked me to pay things with remaining balances according to a split she came up with on her own.

At the end she asks me to transfer the vehicle she has (which is in my name) to her name if she mails me the title (which she took).

Also refuses to give me her phone number at this time near the end of the message and instead provides me an email address and a PO box.


Most of the message looks like foglighting to me as other than snooping/exposure I have been extremely Plan A for almost 3 months now to her. Even calls or texts to her have been overwhelmingly positive other than a few texts about the A and a FB message presenting her the evidence of the A that I have and recommending that she stop lying to her family. Everything else has been Plan A.

But, very clearly she's trying to posture herself as reasonable and me as scary and dangerous. Also lots of asking or telling me to do things, e.g. "will you pay this?" or "will you do this to help with the old house?".

I am unsure of how exactly to respond because while I know she hasn't filed yet, the tone of her message is so dry I think she's fishing for something she could hold up in a D proceeding or for another run at a restraining order.

I think OM or the affairage relatives she's gotten close to are possibly trying to help her in this regard.

What do you guys think? Everything in me wants to just be very frank with her about things but I feel like that would be unwise here.

I can't remember if you already have an attorney, if you do, bring her requests for bill paying to him/her and have the attorney's work that out. You should not be paying for a house you were forced to leave due to her A and restraining order, unless you are mandated by law to do so. It is not your job to finance her affair and make life easier for her.

I do have an attorney, spoke to him on Tuesday about the denied RO and also to be prepared.

I don't know for certain that WW even has an attorney yet. I worry that if I advise her of mine it will escalate things or give her ammo to provide to her family that I'm dishonest about wanting to reconcile. Is this a well grounded fear? With the exception of FIL there appears to be agreement on her side of the family for her to work on the marriage and I think she would relish being able to show me as disingenuous because it would take pressure off her.

The rental lease is up at the end of the month so we're just talking about this month's rent since she's been gone and 2 weeks since I've moved out.

The joint bills don't represent very much money, just a small credit card, our PayPal account, and a financed appliance that I took when I moved out. We never financed much so I'm more concerned about not damaging our credit and her insistence on dividing things according to her concept of fair.

This was discussed on another thread and MelodyLane posted that the betrayed husband should let his wayward wife know that he has an attorney and intends to bring OM on the witness stand.

EDIT: I just remembered that the poster had children. Since you don't, and she hasn't filed for divorce then I wouldn't say anything about attorneys.

axe,

There is something you should consider and maybe you already have considered it..or perhaps you are so focused on Plan A that you haven't.

But considering that you don't have children, you may want to set a timeline for how long you are willing to Plan A before entering Plan B.
Dr. Harley often advises men to Plan A for years when they have children.

But consider this: There are many women out there that would love to be in a relationship with a man that wanted to meet their needs and be loyal.

You are young enough that you could start all over and do fine.

It's just something to consider.

I've been thinking 6 months from DDay which would put me at mid March of next year since I've seen that suggested here for Plan A on a WW, and if no change go Plan B or D. That's just past our anniversary, not that a wayward cares, but anyhow.

Plan A isn't too draining when the WS refuses to have anything to do with you. Hopefully that will change. It was much more draining at the start during counseling and she was treating me like an inconvenient roommate who could be counted on for any honeydo she could think of or foot/neck/scalp massages to help with her guilt-induced insomnia and high blood pressure. Both issues appeared out of nowhere this summer shortly after the A appears to have started, she actually had to go on BP prescription meds. Once I realized she would lie to our pastor and even her own parents about her intentions to reconcile (she'd come home and tell me privately she wasn't) it was nearly impossible to keep bending over backwards for her. A few days before I confronted her about her phone password and she left, I had the audacity to gently kiss her on the lips after a scalp massage and she just grimaced like she was completely repulsed by me. Even as she refused to commit to MC she nightly asked for and complimented me on my massages but wanted zero romantic affection. I do wonder how well she's able to sleep now.

Her no contact thing is so weird because other than insisting on no kisses/saying she loves me, towards the end of counseling I had put a dent in her resolve with LB deposits and she was much warmer towards me, texting me during the day, offering me small favors (e.g. making food) and joking with me. Literally the only thing that has changed since then was confronting her on the phone password and then exposing the affair after I uncovered it. That makes me wonder how much of her refusing contact is anger about exposure versus guilt versus wanting a new phone so she wouldn't have to take calls from people I exposed her to.

I try not to dwell too much on moving on but I figure by March if things don't really improve I'll be more comfortable walking away from this. And then I guess dating again and working towards a solid MB based marriage so I never have to go through this again. This is awful and I know now I could do much more to build an A-proof marriage.

My family is really urging me to D when I'm around them so it's hard to avoid thinking about it. Her immediate family is kinda split between very supportive and gaslit depending on the individual. And everyone else (friends, church, etc) has been urging me not to D because they're shocked. WW has pretty much abandoned our entire social circle since she moved out, so there's a lot of people who are confused and not wanting this to be true.

The fact that your wife is in seclusion is a good sign. She can't face her family and community because you have outed her. After a while, when the fantasy of the affair deteriorates, this will affect her. She will have nowhere to turn. Provide a safe landing for her.

I've thought this too. Her current social circle is people she barely knows and I think at some point she will realize she's made a bad trade.

It's made her parents/family scared they will lose her though. I think some of them blame me for that because of the exposure.

I'm going to ensure I am completely non-threatening and warm to her so she doesn't feel like her bridge back is burned.

How should I respond to these requests in the message? On the bills I've thought of saying I will transfer an agreed upon amount to the joint account on an agreed upon date, and if she decides to spend it on other things, that option disappears forever.

On her vehicle I'm uncertain. Technically the vehicle was a gift to her but I don't feel it is right to just transfer it to her name in light of how she has treated me. There's probably more than a hundred hours of work in customization/restoration on it that I've put it. I have thought maybe it could be used as a bargaining chip of sorts? I think her current dilemma is that the tags are expired and rather than just asking me to go to the DMV with her to renew them she just wants ownership outright.

I would not transfer anything; stop paying any joint bills. No collaboration on any joint accounts, close them all.
I think agreeing with her could be a type of reinforcement of her separation.

But, I suggest you wait until other more experienced posters respond. I don't know what Dr. Harley would advise in this scenerio.

Basically, the question is: When a cheating spouse leaves the home to pursue their affair, unsucessfully attempts to obtain a restraining order against the betrayed spouse and asks the betrayed spouse to collaborate on payment of joint bills and transfer a vehicle to the cheating spouse's name how should the betrayed spouse respond?

This is what I've drafted as a response. Thoughts?

----

WW,

I have documented everything you have told me from the night you asked to separate (8/26/2014) and I can give you times and places where you have either misled me or others about what you intended to do in this situation or openly acknowledged having misled me over the last several months. This was done because I was stunned and heartbroken at the disregard you have for our wedding vows and your sudden reversal in your beliefs on the Biblical covenant of marriage, and this gave me reason to suspect you were not being honest but I wanted to be certain. I am sorry you feel scared or mistrustful of me and I want to cultivate feelings of trust in our marriage. But the simple facts of the situation are likely why the judge denied your restraining order. I pose no threat to you and this is obvious.

Your actions have caused me greater pain and suffering than anything I've ever experienced and they are also causing tremendous amounts of pain and suffering to your own family and to our friends. People are hurt because they were around us when we were together and understood the love and Godly joy that existed in our marriage (despite our difficulties and how you have tried to rewrite the history of our relationship) and do not wish to see this torn apart in such a reckless fashion. I ask you to end your relationship with OM and come home to work on our marriage as well as coming back to church.

I would also encourage you to go to this website ( state courts website ) and search for OM. You should know he's been divorced twice already (among other things), and perhaps you already do.

There are a large number of demands in this message and I have absolutely no intention of negotiating them by Facebook message. If you would like to work these things out come meet me in person. I moved because I wanted to shield myself and our marriage home from things like a restraining order, not because I intend to divvy up our possessions as if the marriage is over. You made the choice about what you think is "yours" when you decided to show up without warning and move things out without any discussion. My standpoint on the property is still that it is "ours" and not "yours" or "mine".

While I don't want to deny you access to our marital property, I also am not willing to consider our assets divided along yours/mine lines. Property in a marriage belongs to both spouses, and while you may want to abandon the marriage I do not.

I love you and want to work together to have a loving and romantic marriage, but any decision you make here, you make alone. I do not go down this road with you, and especially not like this. If you're serious about working out these bills, my door is to you is open.

Do you think that the tone might not be generally accusatory and thus threatening your Plan A?

Yeah, I'm already working with a friend on toning it down. Good call.

The best reply in many occasions is no reply at all.

The only thing she will read is that you are accusing her of rewriting the marital history and the way she currently feels, is that her version is the true reality version from Her perspective.

Also, by not agreeing with the asset division, you will be labeled as controlling.

I suggest you just sit on it and when/if she brings it up again, you just say you will need to discuss that with someone else to get proper advice. Tben see if she would like to go out for a snack and act like you are not bothered by it at all.

LTL

Axe,
I think it is a very good idea to send a letter, but this one is way off base. If you don't mind, I will draft something for you to review. Give me a couple of hours.