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Hi, Prisca:
I explained in an earlier post that I am waiting to show the MB site to my BW before posting any details of our story, per an agreement with her. I am aware of this list and have done much of this already. I do not have the SAA book yet, but will. I have His Needs, Her Needs coming today. Thanks.
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By the way, for the sake of your hurting wife, and yourself, please, PLEASE quit reading all the other counseling books. You realize those people don't know what they are talking about, right? It boils down to this and it's very simple: Dr. Harley's methods produce the feeling of romantic love in marriage, for life. Other counselors teach you that is impossible and tell you to stay committed even though you don't feel anything. Seriously, you have to understand that those people are just WRONG. Absolutely mistaken and misguided, and they will destroy your marriage. Please don't read that stuff. You've already betrayed your wife once for the feeling of love. If you do not recreate that feeling of love in your marriage, you are likely to betray her again, and you will blame your poor wife for it! And it will be YOUR fault for trying to recover your marriage using the approach of people who think that staying in love is impossible. Please read this: Romantic Love: Is it a Realistic Goal for Marital Therapy?Please, this is my impassioned appeal to you and to everyone reading this: stop mixing and matching Marriage Builders with other counseling stuff. The goal of Marriage Builders is love for a lifetime - almost all other counselors teach that love for a lifetime is impossible, or that it just happens sometimes and there's nothing you can do about it. Marriage Builders: LOVE for a lifetime Other counseling: Love fades, marriage sucks, stay committed, tough it out. How could this possibly be any clearer? This information has been available for YEARS; I do not understand why I see person after person mixing Marriage Builders with other counseling. Do people NOT want to be in love?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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You need to put His Needs, Her Needs aside and focus on Surviving an Affair first -- it is the book that lays out the very narrow path to recovery. His Needs, Her Needs comes later, when you are actually in recovery.
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I am having trouble with the concept of the marriage being more important than the Self. Self-nurturing to me means spiritual understanding and knowing who I am and what I need and want and doing things that nurture this, which, come to think of it, IS in some ways covered under the meeting of ENs. Perhaps this is really a philosophical\spirtual question that may not have one good "answer". I see that the MB key is clearly to have a strong marriage and the rest will follow. In the past I have tended to put the needs of others before my own and then feel resentful for that. A lot of us here, including me, really dislike new-age, feel good, psychobabbly concepts like "nurturing the self" and "knowing who I am". Don't you know who you are? Are you trying to find yourself? If so, look in the mirror; the person looking back is you. If you're still not sure, look at the photo in your driving licence or passport. That's you. Look inside the shoes that you're wearing; you can be found there, too. There is nothing spiritual about the meeting of ENs, and I have never heard of anyone who takes more than 5 minutes to fill out the EN form when they do the home study course. There is no quest involved. You know what turns you on to a woman. I know what I liked about my husband when I first met him, and I know what has shifted or changed as I've got older and had children. When I first filled out the form, I knew what my H wasn't doing and I knew what was most important for him to do better. I'm sure you can list your own needs quite easily - no psychobabble required. Having said that, Dr Harley does talk about the Giver and Taker in all of us - the aspect of "the self" (if you must use that term) that takes pleasure from making the other person happy, and the selfish side that seeks to make sure that our own interests are met. Both of these need to be recognised but they also need to be kept in check, because being a complete Giver ruins a marriage, and being a complete Taker ruins a marriage. If you've read the basic concepts you will have read about the Giver and Taker, and they are also discussed extensively in He Wins She Wins. Don't be a pushover, and equally, don't be selfish. That's all you need to know about "the self" and its relevance to marriage. Once you have a happy marriage you won't think about your spiritual quest to find yourself at all. Why would you need to find yourself when you can find a toasty warm spouse in your bed at night?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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And don't cherry pick the checklist. It's an all or nothing deal if you want to recover.
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Thanks, Prisca. That all makes sense. I appreciate the feedback.
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i forgot when i made my longer post above that I was posting to a man who has recently had an affair. Now that I remember that, and see this question... "psychobabble crap"? Maybe. Then perhaps the simple question is now: Can some of you successful folks share how you maintain your own interests while building your strong marriages? I ask for myself but I suspect my BW will have the same question. ...I'm very worried for your wife. it is concepts like "nurturing the self" and "finding myself" and "maintain your own interest" that will lead you straight into justifying another affair if you don't KNOCK IT OFF.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show, daily? If you're wanting to bring your wife on board with this plan, you cannot afford to miss even a single hour of the free daily instruction there. Getting your wife interested is a long and arduous process.
You will NOT get 100% of what you need on this forum.
You CAN get it from the radio show. Put the app on your phone and listen daily. It is on 24/7.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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How could this possibly be any clearer? This information has been available for YEARS; I do not understand why I see person after person mixing Marriage Builders with other counseling. Do people NOT want to be in love? Markos: As I've read these other books I've certainly been moved but their have been contradictions and little that has been actionable for recovery. This is what led me to MB. So, I feel I get your point loud and clear. I won't mix and match. Thanks.
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i forgot when i made my longer post above that I was posting to a man who has recently had an affair. Now that I remember that, and see this question... "psychobabble crap"? Maybe. Then perhaps the simple question is now: Can some of you successful folks share how you maintain your own interests while building your strong marriages? I ask for myself but I suspect my BW will have the same question. ...I'm very worried for your wife. it is concepts like "nurturing the self" and "finding myself" and "maintain your own interest" that will lead you straight into justifying another affair if you don't KNOCK IT OFF. Exactly Ditto to all the other posters have said to you. You will be going down the wrong path if your marriage suffers due to maintaining your own interests.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Hi, Prisca:
I explained in an earlier post that I am waiting to show the MB site to my BW before posting any details of our story, per an agreement with her. I am aware of this list and have done much of this already. I do not have the SAA book yet, but will. I have His Needs, Her Needs coming today. Thanks. Odd that you didn't need to POJA asking your BW about posting about how to work on "self-nurturing"....but you did seem to POJA about posting how you are helping her to recover from what you did to her. On a Surviving an Affair forum.  And as a former BW, I can tell you what I wanted to see my WH posting about was how he was going to help ME. I would turn your focus there and tell your BW the folks on the forum are asking you about what you are doing in order to help heal her and what you are willing to do to protect the marriage. I would honestly be SHOCKED as a fBW to hear that she didn't want you posting about that!
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Hi, Prisca:
I explained in an earlier post that I am waiting to show the MB site to my BW before posting any details of our story, per an agreement with her. I am aware of this list and have done much of this already. I do not have the SAA book yet, but will. I have His Needs, Her Needs coming today. Thanks. Your story is going to be extremely similar to nearly every other affair here. We've seen it all. The story repeats over and over again. We have seen people brutalized and traumatized in exactly the same way as your wife, many times. This is a trauma ward where the most horrible things imaginable happen. My wife asked what things on that checklist you have done and what remains to be done. You can answer that without revealing details of your story. We have seen a LOT of non-serious, lazy, wayward husbands who don't have what it takes for recovery and who aren't serious about giving just compensation to their poor wives. We can tell the difference between the serious former waywards and the non-serious ones by what they DO, not by what they SAY, so we will know a lot more about how serious you are when you answer my wife's question about what you have DONE for recovery. As long as you refrain from answering it, it will tend to make you look less than serious, regardless of how you justify it - we know that it's in your wife's best interest for you to be held accountable for doing each and every item on that checklist, so claiming that it is in her interest that you not answer is going to ring totally hollow with us. If you look less than serious, a lot of people will invest their limited time elsewhere with people who look more serious.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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How could this possibly be any clearer? This information has been available for YEARS; I do not understand why I see person after person mixing Marriage Builders with other counseling. Do people NOT want to be in love? Markos: As I've read these other books I've certainly been moved but their have been contradictions and little that has been actionable for recovery. This is what led me to MB. So, I feel I get your point loud and clear. I won't mix and match. Thanks.  Thanks for giving me the opportunity to post all that, anyway - I hope lots of people read it and are listening. I have seen people do that for years, and it is so disastrous. It's like mixing and matching cake recipes. You have a recipe for angel food cake, and you love angel food cake, and you hate devils food cake, but you mix and match ingredients from a devils food cake recipe. What kind of cake will you get, and will you like it? 
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Who is the OW? Co-worker, neighbor old gf?
Do you live close to her?
Is the OW married?
Has the A been exposed and to whom?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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...I'm very worried for your wife. it is concepts like "nurturing the self" and "finding myself" and "maintain your own interest" that will lead you straight into justifying another affair if you don't KNOCK IT OFF. I appreciate the feedback. I agree that these terms are red flags. Part of the reason I have asked this question is that I feel this has become part of my problem. I understand that there is a real conflict with the nurturing self idea with building a marriage. That's why I asked the question. You all have answered my question well and I have NO problem with my marriage being a priority. And I realize now that building my marriage will automatically nurture my "Self" at the same time. Knocking it off as we speak. Thanks.
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Here. "We need to be apart so I can find myself" What a cute little euphamism that is, finding yourself or finding out who you are.
Many of my dear friends here no that I am a big believer in using a gentle touch on those unfortunate souls who either "Need to find themselves" or "Need to find out who they are" before they can come home to their families.
So, as a public service to these unfortunate souls I have composed "Finding yourself for Dummies"
First, finding yourself...
1. If you can't find yourself, try looking in your shoes. More than likely you will be there.
2. Do not bother looking where your children or responsibilities are, though that would be a reasonable place to look we know you are not there.
3. If need be, go to the police station and give the desk sargeant an 8x10 or you and ask to have an APB put out since you can't find yourself.
4. Ask your child to point to their mom/dad, if you are not sure which one you are reach into your pants and feel around, if there is a penis there, you are dad, if not, you're probably mom.
Now one of these tried and true methods ought to help you find yourself, but it probable dark so let's help you see better. Reach behind you, palms facing you, arms hanging down and grab. That's your butt. Now reach in that and look for a large round object, that is your head. Now, with both hands pull as hard as you can. You are now performing recto-cranial extraction.
Ok, now you have found yourself. We are making progress here! Now we need to find out "who you are". This is not so hard. Look around the house - if there are one or more particularly short little people ask one of them, they are called children, they probably know the answer as it was one of their first two or 3 words. Not able to talk yet? No sweat.
Look for the full grown person with the red eyes who looks like they haven't slept in a while - they probably know. They aren't home??? let's keep looking.
Try looking in a desk or filing cabinet. Look for folders named "mortgage", "Utilities", Or "Marriage license". There will probably be two names here - you are one of those. So we have found you and narrowed it down to two people.
Now look and see if there is a wallet around. Remember that? Little pocket sized leather folding thingy. Look for something that says drivers license. There should be a name. Now find a mirror (Glass thingy in the bathroom), look at the picture on the driver's license and the face in the mirror, if they match, the name on the license is WHO YOU ARE. If they don't, check those papers you found - you are the other name.
Now that you have found yourself and know who you are go find the other full grown person in the house and introduce yourself. Start out with "I'm sorry I could not find myself or figure out who I was, I know now"
Next, knock off the drama, quit being melodramatic and start being mom/dad, husband/wife like you are supposed to and quit with the childish theatrics because the final piece is WHERE YOU ARE. This is called the real world where people depend on you to act like a grownup and keep track of details like who and where you are. The little people in the house are kinda sorta counting on you too.
If this doesn't work and you have to take a journey to answer these questions there is a chance that when you find yourself you will be alone, without a house, without a spouse, without children who love you and without a penny. That is how my XW found herself a year later. Trust me, my plan outlined earlier is better.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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My wife asked what things on that checklist you have done and what remains to be done. You can answer that without revealing details of your story. Exactly. People do just that every day. All it takes is a "yes" or "no" as you go down the list.
Last edited by Prisca; 11/19/14 12:38 PM.
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And as a former BW, I can tell you what I wanted to see my WH posting about was how he was going to help ME. I would honestly be SHOCKED as a fBW to hear that she didn't want you posting about that! SusieQ you are right. I should have not have posted that question today. I had that question on my mind and got it answered but it's definitely not where my focus should be.
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Prisca, I will get back to the checklist later today. Thanks.
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And one more question...
Does your BW know all the details of the affair? Have you given her full disclosure and answered her questions?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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