I�m at a point where I don�t feel as if I can �do it� anymore.

I�ve never been unfaithful. I don�t talk to men, much less see them. No addictions.

Hope and I met and got married and things seemed OK at first. Then we move across the country, so he could be close to his mother to �help her out� with her restaurant business. I didn�t want to move as I had no relatives or anyone at all I knew there but he promised we would be there 2 years �tops�. Once we moved there I found out that his mother was not going to accept me into the family. In fact, she was downright abusive. Pushed me with baby in arms, spread gossip, rumors about me, etc. I won�t go it all, just suffice to say that it was not good (we have since become actually pretty fond of each other).

This was also a hard time because Hope had really bad rage outbursts, yelling , throwing and breaking things, sleeping on couch continually, watching porn, being downright abusive. I tried to put up with it. I continually thought it was something that I needed to just do better. But no matter how hard I tried, Hope didn�t treat me any better (yes, there were good times but the bad were so bad that they outweighed the good). My self esteem plummeted. Hope also controlled all of the money. We both agreed I stay home to raise the kids but then when they started getting older I was terrified to leave them for fear of what he�d do (rage �wise). And he did occasionally direct his rage at them. I felt trapped, but I needed to protect my children and I had no means to get out. We finally moved back to my home state after 6 years (not the promised �2 years tops�). He went to anger management classes at my urging and his rages dramatically decreased so things HAVE improved in that area.

I will do my best to list our issues with the caveat that there is SO MUCH MORE (but this is a discussion forum, not a novel writing contest).

First issue: Dishonesty. Hope has been dishonest throughout our entire marriage. There have been SO MANY incidences of this that I literally can�t list them all. There have been big lies, little lies, the lies that devastate you in the middle of the night, the omissions, etc. Instead of listing them all I�ll just list a few things to give the gist:

We have 3 children. When our first child was born, Hope told me that he would take 2 weeks off from work. I left hospital against medical advice (had bleeding issues after the birth), but they let me go with the assurance that Hope would be �right with me� if anything were to go wrong. He was going to stay home for 2 weeks. I had no reason not to believe him. As it turned out, he stayed home for ONE DAY only. On day 2, he seemed aggravated, bothered by stuff (lack of my attention, baby crying, I don�t know), but he got up from the couch, called his mother to see if she �needed help� at her restaurant, turned to me and said that he �was going in to work�. I was devastated! To top it off, I had a fever (Hope had taken my temp and it was 103!) and should have gone to hospital. I couldn�t even move, much less call anyone. He did come home that night but went right in to work the following day and thereafter. Taking 1 day only of his 2 week promise.

Fast forward to second child: I thought, no WAY would he do THAT again.. I was so traumatized by the first time that I had Hope promise throughout the pregnancy that he wouldn�t do it. He PROMISED up and down that �no, I will NOT ever do that again!� Even saying it angrily as though �how could you even ask such a thing?� And, to his credit he did stay home. But only for 4 days (not the 2 weeks that he promised!). Once again, after those 4 days he called his work (in IT this time) and decided that he wanted to �go in and help out�. I cried, screamed, begged, pleaded with him not to but he just walked out and went to work, breaking that promise as well. My heart broke.

Example 3: Hope loves Lacross (I�m changing sport for anonymity purposes) and wanted our son to play (child #3) This caused a lot of conflict as our son, �Matt�, wanted to do other sports. But Hope said �No. Lacross is best� Anyhow, Hope took it on himself to take control of Matt�s sports, aka Lacross life. He told me that I don�t �know anything about that� (which is not only insulting but false as I�d always played sports, including Lacross). This caused a LOT of conflict between Hope and I. Hope signed Matt up for Lacross regardless of what I said and then would come home from work early to take Matt, so not only did I not know what was going on with my own son but often times I was completely out of the loop as I wasn�t even taking him to events. Then Hope started coaching Lacross�He spent even more time at games, practices, signing Matt up for everything to the point of IMO �ridiculous� (at one point Matt was doing Lacross 5 weekdays per week and 2 weekend games at 10 yrs old, and Lacross was year round because he had him in several �leagues�, clubs, tournaments, camps�.Several times Matt couldn�t even get his homework done! How is this dishonest? Because I complained that I believed it was �too much for Matt�. So Hope �agreed� to cut it down but, instead of following through he just continued to do what he was doing and signed him up for yet more, in other words: he "yessed" me�. This happened several times per year minimum. How is this relevant to today?

This has not stopped. This has gone on for almost 10 years. I have done a LOT to try to �remedy� it. Hope PROMISED that he�d let me know of �each and every Lacross event�, to the point where he signed 2 different documents. The first promise broken, then another document. Broken. Each time he got caught lying he�d swear up and down he�d �never� do it again. The second time he signed the document, he had Matt signed up for a Lacross tournament the VERY next day�We tried marriagebuilders but he stopped and would NOT continue when the POJA came up because he was unwilling to compromise this. He simply wouldn�t do it.

I find out a week ago 2 separate Lacross events that I didn�t know about. One Matt was already signed up for, another he told me on his way out the door and Matt had known about it already. It was to try out for a team that would be traveling to Europe this summer. He told me right before tryouts So, although he told me beforehand, I didn�t know the details, such as the people on the trip, chaperones, how much etc. So when I do get time to look this stuff up I�m not happy (I am not comfortable with my young son going on a trip to Europe without us with a bunch of strangers, only a couple people we DO know, paying 3,500 dollars etc.) and I have to be the �bad guy� saying I don�t agree to it after my son and Hope were in on it "together". Me: out of loop again. It caused an ugly conflict. I am still upset about this.

There is a LOT more to that^ but people don�t have all day so I�ll go to next big issue: Anger/rage

HopenPray has had horrific anger management problems throughtout our marriage like I said but, after the anger management courses, he has learned to control his rages to just a few times per year. He still has angry outbursts but the rage has diminished greatly. Common anger and rage times for Hope are holidays, birthday, vacation, special events� I now dread special events with Hope for this reason.

Another huge issue is that Hope doesn�t show affection or offer any emotional support. Example: when my father was dying/died, Hope was scoping the internet for old friends because I wasn�t emotionally there for HIM.. I have a very close relative in end stage illness right now and Hope doesn�t show an iota of support. My mother is also ill, again, no support from Hope. Nothing.

There is also almost no intimate communication (my top emotional need). He also walks away while I�m mid sentence often and rarely makes eye contact.

Another issue: SF. We have sex maybe 4 times per year. And I am a healthy, in shape, attractive woman with a normal to high sex drive. Hope comes into bed and asks to watch t.v. play a game of words with friends, etc. but doesn�t touch me, or show interest in sex other than maybe those few times per year. I have lost all confidence in this area at this point. Even if he did NOW, I am honestly not even attracted to him at this point, I know this sounds mean but that's how I feel.

Disrespectful judgements: Almost every time we talk. He assumes how I�m going to answer and then reacts from there even though I didn�t say anything yet. It is aggravating beyond belief. I continuously bring it to his attention. He says he is trying to stop it, to point it out to him when he does it. I do. It continues nonetheless.

He came to marriage builders due to my urging rather than through intrinsic motivation of his own. I hope he continues but follow through is another enormous issue.

I just simply don�t like him anymore . I don't feel love whatsoever towards him (and no, there is no one that I'm even talking to). He says that he wants to change, wants to keep the marriage, doesn't want divorce but doesn't do what it takes in my opinion to keep this going. Truly the last thing I ever wanted to do was get a divorce but I also don't want to keep living with all of the lies, anger, lack of good stuff, etc. I would be extremely grateful if anyone responds. Objectively, is there any hope whatsoever? Or is a divorce the only option at this point?

Yes, there is hope. As long as both of you follow this program, and don't cherry pick it, then your marriage can recover and become something better than you ever had. Marriages that were in much worse shape than yours are now fully recovered because the couple did just that.

So, if you are willing to give it a try, the two of you should start with the Lovebusters book. You should also get the companion workbook that goes with it: 5 Steps to Romantic Love. We can help guide you through any of it if you need help.

If you think you need more help in accountability, the online program is GREAT. You'll have a coach and direct access to Dr. Harley on a private forum. Markos and I went through this, and I highly recommend it.

You can also contact Dr. Harley for free on his radio program if you have any specific questions. If you send in a question, they will send you a book for free.

Thanks Prisca.

Is there anything I can do if HopenPrayer doesn't follow through with things? That's been a major problem with us on his end. He "yes-es" me but doesn't follow through.

I've tried for years to get HopenPrayer to do marriagebuilders but he won't. He'll start but then stop when it gets uncomfortable for him (Like I said in my novel above..stopped when we tried to implement POJA. Just flatly refused to do it)

On the first day of doing marriagebuilders, he did try to have undivided attention time with me but was it. One day. And I don't have motivation right now because his lying and anger have completely turned me away from him.

Oh, and I forgot to add: We DID do the online program a couple of years back at my insistance but HopenPrayer wouldn't follow through on that either.

I'm not trying to be negative or argumentative with you, Prisca. Your words mean a lot to me. I can control my side of the street. I just don't know how I can control his. Plus my love bank is at empty so motivation is at an all time low.

Did you do the home study course? Or did you sign up for the coaching, etc?

Signed up for the coaching MelodyLane.

Sorry, I mis-spoke earlier when I said "signed up for the online course". Meant did the coaching with Harley. It didn't work out so well but only because HopenPrayer wouldn't follow through on things.

You coached with Steve Harley?

We talked with (I'm so sorry I forget her name right now), Nancy I think?

She was really great, wonderful at what she does but it didn't work because HopenPrayer wouldn't follow though is all.

Welcome to MB, Gracie

There is hope but divorce may become a better option if your husband refuses to get with the program. Is divorce/separation a real option for you? I ask because some people say they are done and want help yet choose to remain in a miserable marriage.

How old are your children? Do they fear their dad?

Hi Black raven

I don't know that I have any other option but divorce at this point. HopenPray refuses to do anything that he doesn't want to do and I can't make him follow through. I honestly don't believe that he will follow through as he never has in the past.

My children are 17, 15 and 13 and they used to fear their dad but they are old enough now to not.

All of my children are wonderful and confident human beings at this point but it took everything I had to protect them. Yes, they had issues due to HopenPray's rages but each time I sat down with them and explained that "dad grew up with bad role models" etc. and told them each how special they were. and explained that raging was not the way to express normal emotions. I made sure that they were OK each time.

They love their dad but have each told me that they wished he would be "nicer/ less mean".

Kim or Sandy?

You asked "is divorce a real option", black raven. Yes.

I would need to plan it out but yes, I could do it within the next 3 years.

Have you seen these articles?
When to Call it Quits, Part 1

When to Call it Quits, Part 2

It was Kim, Prisca.

I'm terrible with names, sorry!

But yeah, it was Kim and she was so great!! I so wished that HopenPray would have stuck with it..

Is there any hope whatsoever with someone who just "yes-es" you but doesn't follow through?

I think I've hit rock bottom with this.

It really sounds like you've already done Step 1. If he hasn't responded to that, I think it's time for you to move on to Step 2. It won't necessarily end in divorce, but it might. What it WILL do is raise the bar. He will either reach for the bar, or he will not. Either way, you will be better off.

There's some hope, but it's going to require some serious steps. A separation may be what he needs to motivate him to actually do anything. That's what it took to motivate markos to finally do something about his anger. A good man will do what it takes to when his wife back after she separates from him. If he's that kind of man, he will then be motivated. If he's not, then, he's really not worth much more of your time.

Thank you, Prisca. I don't think I can ever trust him again. He keeps saying the will do things and then just not do them. I don't even think I have a choice but to separate at this point. I don't have the financial means at this point but have started a business and am hoping to start making money soon.

I don't know where to go from here. I am praying for guidance.

Yes watch his actions and if he doesn't follow through then separation is the next option. He will have to move out and still provide for his family.

Can you write the radio show? Or better yet, you have access to Dr. Harley on the private forum. Why not write him directly?

Gracie, I really don't see anything to save here. A marriage is a permanent agreement of bilateral (both ways) extraordinary care. Whatever it is you have with this guy, it is not that.

The next Marriage Builders step for a wife whose husband won't do Marriage Builders is to plan for a separation as described in the When to Call it Quits article and the "How to Plan B correctly" thread here on the forum. Don't bother talking to your husband about it; it's something you plan purely on your own.

Every so often a miracle occurs and a man faced with separation mans up and starts doing what it takes every day for the rest of his life. If he does, great, but if not, you have built yourself a happy healthy life without him. So you win both ways when you follow the Plan B procedure. Following this plan means guaranteed recovery for YOU no matter what he does - he gets to choose if he wants to recover with you or lose you for good. The fantastic people on this site will help you recover either way.

I would strongly urge you to contact one or more women's shelters and churches in your area for help to become able to support yourself ASAP. I would also encourage you to write to Dr. Harley on the private forum and contact Kim, and let them know of your plans.

The goal of separation is to separate BEFORE your feelings become even worse. That way if a miracle does occur, you feel better about reconciling. It would have been great if you had separated at the first sign of resistance on his part. And it's important for you to separate NOW, not to drag this out any longer so that you actually feel worse. We have had women here wind up with post traumatic stress disorder from staying in a bad situation too long.