I get a lot of the "leave me alone" talk from my WW. But then she calls me later in the day. Its hard to know what to say sometimes. Occasionally, small caring comments are well received. Other times she gets angry and just tries to cause pain. It is good to remember plan A and stay above her negativity when she starts throwing it around.

I used a line on my WW today that I read on Justthe3ofus's post. It was something MelodyLane told him.

"Falling out of love is a problem to solve, not an excuse to have an affair and give up on your marriage."

This stopped my WW's ranting in its tracks. She recovered and gave me more fogbabble pretty quick but, I know it made her think for at least a second or two. She has consistently told me that she stopped loving me months or even years ago so I thought Melody's line was very appropriate.

I thought it might be helpful to others on the forum. Sometimes, when I am reading posts I forget who's post it is between all the BHs. It almost seems like we're all talking about the same woman.

It really does, doesn't it? Thank goodness we have this place to communicate and thank goodness for the Harleys!

I got one for my WW this past weekend. Felt good, I hope she'll appreciate it cone Christmas. If she doesnt, I still will feel good giving it out of love. Reaffirming that despite what she had done, I still care for her.

For me the weekend before Thanksgiving was the best weekend since D-Day. We seemed to actually click. Since then she has withdrawn a bit. There are many possible reasons including she is dreading her parents returning to town.
If she is in withdrawal, she won't reciprocate the simple "how was your day?". On a good day she will actually ask me questions about what I did. I was shocked when she did that recently.
This thread seem to good for discussing "tactics" in Plan A.

No kidding! She'll look at you after asking how's she feeling like you're the worse person on the planet, and say none of your business. Another day, or hour, she'll smile at a shared secret and apologize for the pain she's caused.

If she won't talk, that's only closing one avenue of care and affection towards her.

Before my WW left, I didn't realize there was an A going on and so most of our counseling was about how terrible of a husband I was and I was in a pretty aggressive Plan A (without knowing what it was) trying to convince her not to leave. This was before I found MB and uncovered the affair. So here's what experience I'd relate:

- Honeydo's - If you have a list of projects she wanted you to fix, do them. It will make an impression even if it feels fatalistic to do them (which it will), just do it and smile. Don't brag about it, just do it. Beware that she may pile them on you after she figures out that you're open for business here. Just don't do anything for her that facilitates the A or separation.

- Chores - Help with the dishes. Clean around the house. She has chores she probably hates doing...help her with them.

- Clean up - I already said cleaning, but I want to reiterate it. Women usually hate a messy house. Clean the house up. If this is a new concept for you, don't be stupid about it and move her stuff or throw it away. Co-ordinate this with her, she'll probably be happy to give you directions.

- Non-sexual touching - Figure out how to give a good scalp or foot massage. There's plenty of guides online to get you started. Pay attention to her and you'll get good at this quickly. Not every WW will want this, especially if this is a "new" thing for you (in which case she might see it as foreplay). My wife has always enjoyed these from me so even near the end when she was refusing to let me see her undress or say she loved me, she would ask for massages. And if not, I would offer and she nearly always accepted. If you can get away with this, it's a great LB deposit..

- Assistance with care - If you have kids or pets, get involved in their care. This is probably a chore and a LB withdrawal for your wife if you're not already helping her here. It may also be an EN you CAN fill but the OM cannot.

- Cook for her - Surely you have at least one or two dishes you can make, right? That she likes? Make 'em. If you're good at this sort of thing, try a new dish.

- Recreational companionship - She won't want to concede obvious acts of romance like dates, because she now has loyalty to OM. But she's not going to consider this that sort of thing even though it is an EN and will deposit in her LB. Make a list of her favorite recreational activities and get to it. Don't be too pushy about these kinds of dates, but be sneaky about them. Pleasant surprises are always good.

- Show yourself off - This one is trickier but if you know things that she loves about you, or for you to do, do those things. I play electric guitar (thus ax...a slang term for an electric guitar) and my wife has always loved it. Even in MC she brought this up as something she loved about me. I started playing at home more, and played/sang a few songs for her when I could squeeze it in.

- Acknowledge her favorites - You probably know a lot of her favorites. Favorite TV shows, video games, music, movies, etc. Don't go overboard here but if she's a Garth Brooks fan, put on some Garth Brooks at home when she's around. She's in a very self-centered frame of mind, if you do this smoothly (and not too obviously) it's to your advantage. You might know a whole lot more about her than OM in this area.

- Notes - There's something innately intimate to a spouse about their partner's handwriting. If you're only leaving love notes that will probably get old or annoying if she's insisting on being out of love with you, but even a friendly handwritten note about your whereabouts or schedule with some funny anecdotes or inside jokes you two share should put points on the board for you.

I did all of this and actually my wife's demeanor turned around from stone cold to friendly, texting me, joking, etc. It was getting suspicious about the affair and asking about OM that ran her out. She'd even been planning double dates with a couple we're friends with at church and planning our home meals weeks in advance before she left. I don't regret snooping because even with those positive signs she was still giving me mixed signals all over the place about whether she was going to leave me at the end of counseling, but anyhow...I do think it helped, and hopefully the ideas will help you.

If you're a project oriented person like me, put a task list together. Plan and organize, then execute.

Be prepared for her to blow you off or act uninterested. Check that item off your list, try something else next time. Don't be unnatural or pushy about this, be smooth.

Also be prepared for her to back out of things because she wants to protect her relationship with OM. My wife and I did recreational stuff or massages every morning before work for a couple weeks and she was loving it, but then all of a sudden she told me she needed "alone time" in the mornings and started backing out of commitments to do things at that time she was obviously enjoying. I snuck around the house and figured out this was because she was talking outside to OM on the phone during this time, and so our activities had been crowding him out. I'm going to guess he complained to her about this.

Last thing I'd say is doing all of this had a huge emotional toll on me as I started to figure out there was an A happening. I don't know how I would have held up this long doing it with her in the home because I was looking for her to reciprocate and mostly she didn't. With a different mindset, maybe I could have done a year of this. It's not all bad, we all should have been doing more of this stuff so think of it as self-improvement. Also time she's spending letting you fill her ENs is time she's not spending with/talking to OM, and it will cause conflict for them.

They are related, much as the monsters in the horror movies were related in the sense that they were all monsters, in pursuit of the one human left alive.
Seriously, what would happen if you took all these active wayward wives and placed them on an island with one man to pursue? Would they become cannibalistic and kill one another? I don't know.

They'd need a judge on the island to process all of the restraining orders before they could get that far.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!

Actually,
I shouldn't be so harsh and judgmental.
The Bible should be our standard and it clearly says that all have sinned and should repent and believe on Christ.

So, instead of such deep complaining I should be encouraging you to pray for your wife and continue a strong Plan A.

I'm 6 months older than Ax, and yesterday, I was a groomsman in a mutual friend's wedding. "T" is the man, and he and I were both 29 year old virgins, and he married his first girlfriend. I think it's incredible, and awesome for him.

Another groomsman has been married for 18 years and has 14 kids. I'm a single guy, never had a girlfriend and I still try to seek out Godly counsel from older men, and one thing that he hit upon several times is that it will be the principles that you both share that will keep you together, especially when the feeling ebbs and flows.

This is something that a lot of people in our generation don't consider because we've bought into the lie that once you fall into love, that's "The One", regardless of whether or not we have turned our brains on or not. Yes, there are feelings involved in 'love', but love is far more than a feeling. "Love" is not an action, but the commitment to put the other person before yourself. Many think that once fighting starts, and the feeling fades, it means that you made a mistake. It doesn't, it means that you simply need to remember your principles and the vows that you made to each other in front of God and your family/friends and continually strive to put your spouse first (or second, rather, after Jesus)... so ahead of yourself.

kaveman, what keeps marriages together is not a vow, but that feeling of love. Couples who are IN LOVE don't get divorced. All couples make vows, but that does not keep marriages together.

The vow should be to care for the other person for life, not to just stay married. The vow just to stay married, does not keep people together. Being IN LOVE keeps couples together.

I agree that you should study the wisdom of others, and Dr Harley has been studying what keeps marriages together for 40 years. If you want to read about his philosophy, start here: How Dr. Harley Learned to Save Marriages

Well, you don't even need much fighting to fall out of love (WW and I rarely if ever fought), and I will say this experience and this site has taught me that you have to continually cultivate romantic love in a marriage or else people get very vulnerable and do foolish things.

Mark 7:20-23
20 He went on: �What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person�s heart, that evil thoughts come�sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.�

Everyone is programmed for this sort of thing from the factory. That's why opposite sex friendships are so dangerous. Keep things hot in the marriage and don't play with fire (OS friendships).

Every couple remembers those vows, but 60% of marriages experience affairs. When a spouse falls out of love, they are vulnerable to anyone else who comes along and meets his needs. This is why it is so important to sustain the romantic love in a marriage. CARING love does not keep marriages together. Almost every person who has an affair says "I love you but am not in love with you."

kaveman, here is another excellent article that explains Dr. Harley's position:

When should you tell your spouse, "We have a problem." Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

I'd say too that principles can be things like good boundaries and a commitment to meet the other person's emotional needs, which will sustain romantic love. Principles guide and protect, but the emotional link (love/romance) is the glue in a relationship.

exactamundo!

Yes. My wife said to me the last time I saw her, "You might not believe me, but I care about you." It sounds absolutely insane, but I could tell she was sincere.

My wife used that word too. She told me she had wanted me to fight for our marriage in an honorable way. I asked her what way would have been honorable in her eyes, she said she didn't know, but what I had done was dishonorable.

Sir, it is insane because she doesn't care about you.
If she did, she would not hurt you with her affair.