Yesterday I had a conversation with my boss about my separation and he was actually very understanding. The problem happened when I wrapped up the phone call and came upstairs to talk to my W. She was in the office on the computer and I came in to talk to her. I can't remember if I asked if she had time to talk (mistake #1) but I started telling her about my conversation and she responded with a couple annoyed "uh huh" responses. I talked for another minute or two and realized that she was not turning around from her chair and I was actually talking to her back. Not sure why I talked so long without getting her full attention but anyway, once I realized it, I stopped talking and waited for a minute to see if she would turn around. She didn't so I got on my computer because I felt like she didn't want to talk about it. About a minute later, she turned around as I was typing and claims she stared at me for a minute before getting up and leaving the room. She was clearly upset. I came out and asked what happened and she said that she felt ignored because I didn't give her my undivided attention when she was ready. I responded to her that I had felt like she didn't want to talk so I started doing something else. This made her very upset because she said that I starting to "argue" with her feelings and perspective on the situation. Trying to convince her that her perspective that I was ignoring her was a wrong perspective. I thought I was very respectful with my response about feeling like she didn't want to talk. Was it wrong for me to share my feelings in this case?

She says at this point in our marriage (close to divorce), I have no right to share my perspective and try to convince her that she is wrong. I didn't see it as convincing her that she's wrong but rather that my perspective was different. I know Prisca told me to "shut up" with the logical arguments. Would this be considered another logical argument?

I also tried to tell her that I understood what I did was wrong and I should have given my undivided attention to her. That I understood her perspective on it and I'm learning to do better. She responded that I have "not changed at all" and I'm "lazy". That I "lie" about "understanding" and I'm not doing the work to change. I did shut up while she was telling me all this and I didn't say anything to contradict her, but I disagree. She wants a complete change overnight and things are not changing fast enough. My changes are "promising the world and delivering nothing". She judgest me for not being on the board enough and when I get on, she judges what I say on this board. The fact is that I am seeking help. I go to anger management consistently, I listen to MB radio, read/re-read chapters in MB book and I'm making efforts to do a 180 change in my life by gettig your feedback, among others. She said to tell markos "I'm trying" and see how he responds. markos?

W just corrected me about the post above. She actually did tell me that she wanted to talk about it but the kids were in our faces so she told them to get downstairs to the basement and play. They wouldn't go so we both went out and sent them down. At this point, she said she went into the office and waited, and when I didn't show up for a couple minutes, then she got on her computer. Then, when I came and sat down to talk, she did not turn around because I was talking about another guy at work who is separated from his W (he is on his third marriage tho and W has no respect for him). So, she didn't turn around because she didn't want to hear the crap about this known womenizer. When she didn't turn around, I stopped talking and waited, then got on my computer. And the rest is above....

She also wanted me to mention that she had to "force" me to get back on this board. That I did not do it under my own free will but I am reluctantly doing it because she got mad at me for not doing anything and becoming complacent and not using my resources, like the board.

Another correction, she wants to make sure markos knows that she wanted me to tell you that I say "I'm trying" in response to her complaints about my lack of iniative and laziness.

I need more advice, please.

Last night, when I was giving our 3 year old a bath and putting him to bed, he was crying a lot and I asked him why he was so sad. He responded that mom hit him in the face when he was eating lunch. He is very well spoken for a 3 yr old but I couldn't believe what I heard and he repeated it and held up his fists. I asked W about it and she told me that she was having a terrible day and slapped him because he wasn't eating his lunch. She also blamed and justified her actions because of me and our terrible marriage.

I know from my program that blaming and justifying anger is a way to avoid taking responsibility. I told her that it wasn't ok to do that and I said that she should get help for her anger and possible depression. She told me to stop trying to "set her straight" and that I should not be doing it based on marriage builders.

I know I shouldn't set her straight, but in this case I had to say something. It has gone too far and I feel like this may be a last straw for me as well. If she is unwilling to get help with her anger, then I can't stay married to her. It concerns me for the safety of the kids and me. People do really stupid things when they are angry!

She also asked me tonight if I really wanted to lose my marriage over it, but I know that I have to protect my kids. She told me to leave the house but I refused because she lost my trust. I really don't think she would do anything to hurt them, but after yesterday, I am not 100% sure.

What should I do?

MtnMan, email this post to Dr. Harley. Get his advice, and follow it to the letter.

Don't leave your house.

My instinct is that hitting a child in the face is a health and safety exception to the POJA. The MB rules are there to keep you two from hurting each other, but if one of you is hurting a child, it is an exception the the MB rules.

If markos ever hit my child in the face, I'd be done.

Get Dr. Harley's expert opinion on what you should do before doing anything.

Are you going to email Dr. Harley?

Yes, but I'm sad and afraid that this is the end of my marriage.

If there's anybody who could keep you together, it's Dr. Harley.

Let us know what he tells you.

Here is Dr. Harley's response:



And my email back:


If you have any advice, I'd appreciate it as my marriage is on it's last leg.

W claims that I am "gas lighting". What does that mean? She sent Dr Harley an email that she refuses to share with me and told me that she wants Dr Harley to understand how I am gas lighting.

I looked it up online and I feel like she is using the term to directly avoid calling me a sociopathic liar and mentally ill.

Gaslighting is where you manipulate another person's perception of reality in an effort to convince them that they are wrong. It comes from a story where a character keeps changing the brightness of the gas lights in a room while acting like they are unchanged in an effort to convince their victim that they are going insane.

^^^^ yes

Here Please Explain Gaslighting

MtnMan,

Why don't you take your son to live with you?

Prisca, I actually do trust her with the kids usually, but I was obviously scared for their safety that day due to some of her text messages to me early in the day and then my son's comments that night. I don't regret confronting her about it, but I do regret trying to straighten her out by suggesting anger management or anti-depressants.

Dr Harley told me to stop being disrespectful and was very clear that trying to straighten her out is disrespect. Regardless of what she does, I will not get angry or disrespectful. I think taking the children would be disrespectful and I'm not going to do it. She is a good mother overall and at this point, I have no choice but to have faith in her ability to control herself.

My marriage is almost certainly over now and I refuse to make it any worse.

Are you in contact with Dr. Harley? Did you ask him about taking your son?

Dr Harley and I have emailed several times in the past week. No I have not asked him about taking my son. Truth is that I know it is disrespectful and since I work and my wife is a SAHM, this is not much of an option anyway. I also don't want to escalate it to that level.

Dr Harley just wrote to me and said "It might be a good idea for [MtnMan] to take [son] while you are both separated so that [W] can have some time to think. That might make some Love Bank deposits."

He also cc'd my W and now she is upset.

Can somebody explain why he would write this without me asking? Is he monitoring this board?

Dr. Harley does sometimes read the forum. She's upset because he suggested it or why is she upset?

I would trust Dr. Harley on this. He obviously sees the concern for your son.

She's upset because he suggested it and she thinks I am making her out to be the "bad guy". She claims that I am the abuser and I'm turning it around to her being the abuser. She thinks I am using the forum as another form of abuse toward her, rather than using it to get help for myself and it is a passive aggressive attempt of me trying to get back at her. In all honesty, I don't think I use the forum as a passive aggressive attack at her but I can see why she would say that. From her perspective, I have been passive aggressive many times before and there is little reason for her to believe that this time is any different.

I have to say that I shared the facts from that day on this forum because I was honestly concerned and needed some feedback about what to do. I did not share the text messages that she sent to me because I didn't want to make it even worse for her and I didn't want it to be an attack. The fact is that she is a good mother overall, like I said in my post above, and I do trust her with the kids but a little piece of that trust was broken last week.

I actually regret sharing the information now because it is making things worse for me.

I see how it was disrespectful for me to try to straighten her out amd that's what I'm trying to concentrate on. Fixing myself and not trying to control others - either passively or actively.

She just texted me "more twisted up words on the forum. You DO realize that reading what you wrote makes me feel even worse about you".

Honestly, when I get this "feedback" from here, it makes me want to stop posting her. I know you all could help me, but it seems like it actually makes it worse in my "real" life.

I know it's not recommended, but I told her to go ahead and post on my thread if she wants to clear up my "twisted words".