Waste of time!!!

It's not that movies in the basement is a bad idea in itself: if you were already in love that would be a good time where you could snuggle up and enjoy those romantic feelings.

You see, watching a movie doesn't really create a lot of opportunity to meet needs. The movie is meeting her needs, not you. Dr H says spectator style recreation is great and is a good addition to, but not replacement of, UA time.

The courtship mind set is so important here. You wouldn't have fallen in love if the first few dates had been spent looking at a screen. At her home with her family a few rooms away.

I know you said she courted you, but you must have planned some dates?

Why are you so keen on staying under your own roof?

i have noticed that most couples don't take this exercise very seriously and instead of changing their lifestyles [the one that led to the bad marriage!] they try to maintain their lifestyle and just "count" what they were already doing as "UA time." But unless a dramatic lifestyle change is made, their marriage will never change.

Pencil whipping this exercise avails a big fat nothing.

I think everybody sees a corner they'd like to cut when they start out here. For parents the UA time looks impossible. For a childless couple, like my situation when I got here, my sticking point was dealing with opposite sex friendships. Little did I realise that the step I was refusing to implement was the very one that was about to cause my husband's affair and create more damage than I could have dreamed.

Usually the lifestyle change you think of as impossible to implement is the thing that's been causing all your problems.

Basement movie night is what we do when a babysitter cancels. Yikes. So it looks like your careers and money take priority over a loving marriage.

Men seem to tolerate a lack of UA time a lot more. For women, it leads to feeling trapped in a house with kids and then depression. Decide how much your career is really worth and how much you are saving by not getting out of the house.

We have 2 kids, 2&4, one is disabled and care is expensive. So is divorce and 2 houses. Your situation strikes me as one where the man is blindsided with divorce over "neglect".

Good luck, you can fix this if you make different choices.

Please read. The Critical Importance of Undivided Attention

I so agree. And what most don't understand is the corners have already been cut because Dr Harley is very precise. His program doesn't work without this step so when a couple refuses to follow the policy of UA all of their efforts are wasted.

This step seems especially hard for couples who are in the habit of putting their marriage LAST. But their success is entirely contingent upon putting their marriage FIRST.

Quick update. Things are going very well so far. We had very pleasant evenings together over the weekend. Nothing has changed about our mid-day interactions (we still get along great), she is engaging me in a more conversation, and I'm definitely noticing less of a defensive wall during the downtime. But she is still has a bit of a reflex against non-sexual physical contact (pats on shoulder, pecks on cheek, etc.) (aside: ML asked if I groped or used innuendo. Not anymore. I purged most of the innuendo about 2 years ago, and the rest died about a year ago. The groping has faded over the course of our marriage and has been completely eliminated for at least a few months.)

I have two questions for the group.

Four 4 hour dates per week is about $1000 per month in babysitting costs if the entire time is out of the house. That is logarithmically displaced from the range of feasibility. How do people manage that from a practical stanpoint? There are other issues too. Her job has been her primary means of escaping from daily stress and her creative outlet. Since she puts in most of her time in the evenings, asking her to give that up for the sake of dates would be perceived as an incredibly selfish demand.

We had an interesting exchange over the weekend. She knows that I felt like a sacrificed a major part of my bachelor life for the sake of our marriage (although, she thinks this is still a big hang-up with me and it is not). Totally out of nowhere she tells me that her latest realization from therapy was that she feels like she has missed out on a lot sexually, but of the wine-and-dine variety more than the animalistic sex men dream about. My response was that "we will make up for lost time as soon as she is ready, and not a moment sooner". At that point she muttered something about all the work I've been doing. My read on that is that she realizes that I've bought into my role in causing the current problems and have committed to fixing them.* I think she is now back in the mindset of ENs and knows that my job of satisfying hers will be much easier if there is some reciprocity. But I am still concerned about the aversion. I've been mentally preparing myself to turn her down the first time she initiates sex if I perceive she isn't ready yet. Is this the right thing to do, or would I be causing further damage?

* It helps that I have a track record here. In one of our early counseling sessions I challenged her with the question "when was the last time you asked me to change and I didn't". After a few seconds she responded "never" and then I started breathing again.

Oops, I've been hitting reload on this page for the last four days and for some reason the last 6 posts never showed up.

I proposed the 16 hours to her back in September and made it clear I was willing to take that step. She rejected it as impossible immediately. Again, the problem is that her job is also her hobby and primary outlet. She NEEDS that time and I have been supporting it unconditionally.

There is also truth to the statement that a woman needs to decouple from her kids to connect with her husband. That is definitely the case with her.

I'm aware the movie nights are not the best UA activity, so I've also been trying to use our basement for "game nights" and similar activities. Those have been harder to get her to do.

Finally, I don't think the love deficit is as bad as it seems on the surface. It has primarily been the stress of her medical problems that have pushed things over the edge. Between her physical recovery and her seeing me buy into my role, things are going to move quickly. Things would be even better if I could get her to join the boards here. I think she will be ready for that soon.

How old are your children?

Throughout their child-rearing years Joyce and Dr H spent more on babysitters than the mortgage. He says it was especially important for Joyce to leave her SAHM workplace.

Financially, it makes sense. The alternative is expensive marriage counselling, followed by the expense of a divorce and maintaining two separate households. That's the likely outcome of not being in love.

Besides which, most couples SAVE money by moving in together - but immediately decide there is less to spend on dating!

Lots of posters here keep their costs much lower than the Harleys did by exchanging babysitting favours with friends or using church or after school facilities.

My parents never earned a fortune but are happily married today and we never spent every night of the week with them! We had too many other things going on as children.

Your eldest is ten, right? Surely he/she has sleepovers, nights with grandparents/aunts, sports events/school clubs all the time?

Your child can't be at home all the time at such a sociable age surely?

The love bank deficit is pretty high if she would rather work than be on a date.

I'm sure her medical problems have been stressful, but even without them the situation you describe (groping only stopped a few months ago for example) would have been a steep slope to climb back up.

What kind of hobby/craft are we talking about? Is it possible you could take her somewhere artsy to get inspired? A craft fair? Sharing her passion would be UA time and you should be thinking of dates that will tempt her out of her hermitage.

Nooooooo!

1) Dr H places a great deal of emphasis on the husband to lead the way and we've seen this wisdom borne out on the forums. Women who try to bear some of this burden tend to succumb to depression. Men, for whatever lovely ingredient in your makeup, don't. Upside, they can carry on in a poor marriage in good health - downside they don't always see how the feminine depression is linked to the relationship.

2) Any pressure at all will only extend the aversion. You must communicate that you are happy, cheerful and willing to meet her needs regardless. That it IS easy for you. It's not the same as with her needs, which must be provided before she can reciprocate.

PoJA in all cases, especially sex. Without enthusiasm - it will not happen.

Re-read Dr Harley's advice about disrespectful judgement; specifically, "straightening out your spouse".

A judgement based on your perception that she isn't ready yet is patronising and highly disrespectful. Does her perception matter to you, or not?

Does she like being groped? I know that I ABHOR it.


They find creative ways to achieve this, such as babysitting co-ops, exchanging babysitting with other parents. Going to a gym and using their babysitting services. You need to get creative to make this happen.


No, it is not a selfish demand. Your marriage should be the place where she "escapes from daily stress."


LOVEBUSTER ALERT!! Setting your wife straight with your superior attitude is a huge love buster. Are you saying you are smarter than her?

She NEEDS that release because she doesn't get it from her marriage. That is what we are trying to change here. Anything that comes BEFORE your marriage will eventually come before it. You should not support anything that harms your marriage. She might be able to continue her job, but shouldn't do it during your time.

Schedule your dates FIRST and then schedule less important things around that. For example, your jobs, time with the kids, church, should all be scheduled AFTER your date time is set.


Your MARRIAGE should be her favorite leisure activity. If it is not, there is something wrong. Put your marriage FIRST, not last.


Why not focus on things that will push your marriage forward? This is a waste of your time.


That would be great if she could join!

Agree. This is not a good sign, but a BAD SIGN.

I can see how her comments about rewarding the work you've done would make you nervous - but as others have said it would be a huge lovebuster for you to try and educate her.

If you think she'd be interested in the forums that's probably your best bet to avoid that situation. Or showing her Dr H's articles and asking her *if* she agrees with them or if she thinks it represents her situation. If she likes his advice she may come here to find out more and if other people are advising her you don't have to!

At no time tell her what you believe the problem to be or advise her on what she should do. When I first came here I found DJs the hardest thing to identify, but it really makes sense when you think about it.

I posted a thread here a couple of weeks ago looking for advice on how to navigate relationship issues while my wife recovered from an episode of depression. While we had been drifting apart (slowly) for some time, there were a couple of stressful incidents over the last 12 months that really accelerated the process. Things have been going much better over the last month. My wife is recovering nicely from her low point in October/November, and I have (I believe) embraced my role in causing our long-term problems and have made serious efforts to change. As a result, our relationship has improved considerably and we now interact like good friends (an oversimplification, of course). The next step is to reestablish the emotional and romantic connection between the two of us. Fortunately, my wife now feels ready to take this step and I think she will join the discussion on these boards soon.

For the sake of (re)starting discussion, there are three areas that I think we need to flesh out.

1) We need a plan for how to spend our time to re-establish the romantic link. The comments here have put a great emphasis on undivided attention outside of the home, but the two of us need to sit down together and figure out how to make that happen in our lives.

2) We need open discussion about our emotional needs. I can see the big picture problem of how I have failed to meet her needs, but presently those needs are even hard for her to identify. As we move forward, and away from the traumas that we faced in 2014, those needs will become better defined and I need to be able to identify them and meet them.

3) The elephant in the room is the sexual side of our relationship, but this is an issue that needs to be put aside until major progress is made on #1 and #2. In the previous thread, there was a consensus that my wife had developed a sexual aversion. I recently showed her Dr. Harley's article on the subject and she emphatically stated that she did not have an aversion. That would have been my initial reaction too, so I am wondering if the situation is more like the one described by a commenter in the previous thread
I have, on her request, been looking at erotica literature. Based on that "research" and some brief exchanges with her, my opinion is that our expectations for good sex are actually very much in alignment. I don't think she agrees with that assessment, however.

What is your ACTION plan?

Here is where you need to focus. Focus on the top 4 intimate emotional needs because they will achieve the greatest bang for your buck. Those needs are conversation, affection, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. Do this by scheduling out 4 - 4 hour dates using this worksheet: here

Make an appointment to sit down every Sunday afternoon with your wife and plan out your dates for the upcoming week.

I would also ask your wife to fill out this questionnaire: Marital Problem Anaylsis