I have an updated question and I am not sure if I should make a new thread or stick to this one.

As my husband and I were negotiating our location and job changes, it dawned on my that he is petrified to fly. He shared that if he didn't find flying so scary, he would be open to locations with 2 hours or less of a direct flight to his parent's town.

As I have been thinking about this, there are other things he has grown anxious about over time. He declined a promotion at work (which would have made things easier on me career-wise) because of his fears public speaking and the job required a public update once per quarter to his peers and boss. He left his brother's rehearsal dinner without notice because he couldn't give the toast, which caused some family strife.

And, when I think about other things we argue/disagree about, some of his anxieties may be at the root of the issue. For example, he has very specific things he gets very stressed/angry about with our house cleanliness (e.g., finger prints on the fridge door handle) but everything else can be a total mess and he doesn't care.

In the past he has mentioned wanting to speak to his doctor about medication for anxiety but he never followed through, so it is a concern for him. I am thinking about suggesting he consider it again.

I don't remember reading anything on MB about anxiety and it's interference on relationships - has Dr. Harley written anything or has it been on the radio show?

My husband and I are both high-anxiety people. My husband tends to be OCD, as well. The MB program works wonders for an anxious couple who embrace it. But the anxious/OCD person has REALLY got to embrace it.

I have heard Dr. Harley talk about anxiety. He has said it is harder for a wife whose husband is anxious and OCD than it is for a man who has the same problem with his wife. This is going to be a very difficult thing for ya'll to solve.

Certain things really bother my anxious husband, but he is committed to not get angry at me over them, to not make demands of me over them, and to not be disrespectful. His commitment to that is really the only thing that makes this marriage even possible.

BTW, you can ask Dr. Harley himself by emailing the radio show. It's free, and they'll send you a book.

Okay, so is the strategy them to find a way to meet the need without love busters? What about something like wiping the fridge handle every time you open the fridge? I think it would be very difficult for me to ever be enthusiastic about that, especially given the history of SDs and DJs around it.

He can request that you wipe the fridge handle every time, but he cannot demand it. If you are not enthusiastic about wiping the fridge handle, then you are not enthusiastic. You can negotiate other options (one of which might be him wiping the fridge handle himself on regular basis, but that is just one option among many).

Markos would love to have his handkerchiefs ironed and folded just so. I have absolutely no desire to do that for him, and I'm not going to make the sacrifice to do that for him. He doesn't demand it of me, either. He would say that he's very happy in our marriage, though, because I invest a lot of effort in meeting his emotional needs in ways that I AM enthusiastic about. He realizes that if I were to sacrifice and do that for him, he would be gaining at my expense, which would be devastating to our marriage.

Another emotional need that he asked me to meet back when things were real bad between us: he wanted me to show him affection by kissing him goodnight every night. I had NO desire to do that for him, because he lovebusted me over it so much. I still do not give him a kiss goodnight since I'm not enthusiastic. We have found other ways for me to show him affection that makes us both happy.

Dr Harley would expect the OCD and anxiety to be treated. He would not expect a spouse to have to agree enthusiastically to behave in an unreasonable manner - e.g. wiping the door handle every time you touch it, and other OCD demands.

Anxiety responds to medication, and OCD responds to behavioural therapy. He needs to look into both these things, urgently.

All of this would be easier to negotiate through, btw, if you were getting out on dates for UA, and were in love. It's always easier to negotiate need meeting when you are in love.

I would far rather have Prisca meet my emotional needs for sexual fulfillment, intimate conversation, recreational companionship, and affection, than meet my need for ironed and neatly folded handkerchiefs.

The high anxiety spouse needs to prioritize his emotional needs. This is difficult for a high priority person to do, because they are likely to focus only on what is bothering them and in front of them at the moment. But it has to be done. He needs to decide and communicate to you, if he could only have one emotional need met by you, which one would he want that to be. Would he truly prioritize clean door handles over sexual fulfillment, for example?

This is the exact same approach Dr. Harley recommends for eliminating annoying habits: the annoyed person has to prioritize so that the annoying spouse can focus on the most important things first and get the most benefit up front. IMO, it's just absolutely indispensable for a high-anxiety husband to prioritize his needs and communicate that information to his wife, because it is impossible for her to meet all of his needs and she needs to not be spinning her wheels wiping door handles when a fun date with her dressed up fancy and attractively would make much, much, MUCH bigger love bank deposits for him.

Human needs and wants are limitless. Marriage Builders doesn't teach you to meet every single need your spouse might have. It teaches you how to have a good marriage by meeting the most important needs. Some people with an engineering or technical background might recognize this as the 80-20 principle. It works.

That is why Dr. Harley tells couples to prioritize meeting the four intimate emotional needs, by following the policy of undivided attention. If a couple won't commit to following this policy, Dr. Harley won't work with them. If your husband won't follow it, then you should plan for a separation from him until and unless he becomes willing to do so.

You should also plan for a separation if he will not commit to completely eliminating demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts. I took note of the fact that you said he has angry outbursts over the fridge handle smudges. He needs to take these nuclear weapon love busters completely off the table if he ever wants to have his emotional needs met. So this is for his own good - he can only get his emotional needs met by eliminating these behaviors, so you need to set things up for him so that he cannot continue to live with you if he will not eliminate them. This needs to happen sooner rather than later, while you still feel love for him. Again, this is for his own good.

BTW, Love Busters has a procedure Dr. Harley gives to couples for eliminating annoying habits, and His Needs Her Needs has a procedure Dr. Harley gives to couples for learning to meet the need for domestic support. The fridge smudge thing falls into both of those categories.

DON'T waste any time with those procedures if he will not commit to religiously following the policy of undivided attention or if he will not commit to eliminating demands, disrespect, and anger. But you can offer those to him as ways that he might be able to get the lesser emotional need of domestic support met IF he is willing to use the POUA to focus on the important emotional needs. The procedure for meeting the need for domestic support has a chance of bringing about a situation where you are enthusiastic about cleaning fridge smudges - it starts by clarifying whose job is what. You might be more enthusiastic about doing this if he didn't see it as your job. And the procedure for eliminating annoying habits explains that you can only focus on eliminating three annoying habits at one time, so he will have to focus on what he really wants changed, first.

Again, ONLY offer to do these if he will follow the real MEAT of the Marriage Builders program: eliminating demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts, and following the Policy of Undivided Attention. Marriage Builders can't work if those parts are left out, and doing the minor things can't motivate your husband to follow those major parts of MB.

Those were very helpful posts everyone! So, the goal isn't always to find a way to meet the need enthusiastically. We need to prioritize the needs that make us most happy and that we can be enthusiastic about. He can ask me to wipe down the fridge door handle after every touch but it doesn't mean I have to do it as long as I am meeting many of his ENs in a way I am enthusiastic.

I will suggest that he speak with the doctor about anxiety again.

We did try to set up a date night for UA time yesterday. But, he really wanted his parents to babysit and I feel like we spend too much time with them already (and they always come over way early and stay late when we ask them to babysit for a few hours) and that they don't really know how to engage with our 21 month old son and so they report he cries much of the time we are gone. I wanted to have the babysitter watch him (who my son loves and who is willing to put him to bed, which my ILs are not, they just keep him up late) but my husband was not enthusiastic about spending money on a babysitter when his parents were available. We ended up not going out and instead talking and eating ice cream together after our son went to bed so we got some time in but it wasn't as good as a date night would have been.

We are both taking a half day on Friday so that we can spend some UA time together while our son is at daycare but that can't be an every week thing.

Will your husband commit to not being demanding, disrespectful, or angry toward you? Having his anxiety treated is one possible means to that end, but it is important that he commit to the end goal - never being demanding, disrespectful, or angry toward you again.

If he will not commit to this goal, don't waste any time suggesting ways he could accomplish it. He won't be committed enough to follow through.

What he would say is that he really doesn't want to do those things and he will agree to stop but then when he gets really anxious or upset he feels like he can't help it. It has improved over time but when he doesn't do those things, his alternative response is to not speak to me for a few hours or sometimes the whole day which I often find draws more love units than a SD or DJ.

You should listen to markos on this. My post wasn't nearly as informed as was his. What he is telling you is that any possible medical solution will not give him the willingness to follow MB - and that is the overwhelming problem facing your marriage.

It's not important what his reason for the "no" is. If his answer is that he can't or won't, then you need to start planning for a separation. Sooner, rather than later, while you still feel love for him.

If he feels that he can't control it, then he might want to look into professional help. Or he might find that when he is sufficiently motivated to try to control it (because it is the only way to get his emotional needs met), that it turns out that it really is possible. Leave all that up to him.


Him learning to not say anything to you when he feels frustrated is a great early step. He should move on from there to learn how to relax. Dr. Harley suggests a great plan for relaxation training in his article How to Negotiate When you are an Emotional Person.