"It bothers me for you to have friends of the opposite sex, even if they are gay. I need you to end the friendship."

If I say that, then she says "Fine, then I won't tell you anything about work"...

So when she says that I am being controlling, and that I don't want her to have any friends, should I just tell her that I am just trying to protect our marriage from outside interference? My wife just sometimes makes me feel like I am so controlling, and I don't want to be thought of that way.

No, you don't need to get into a debate about why it bothers you. You simply repeat "It bothers me, and I need you to end the friendship."

She can claim it's controlling all she wants. The question is, will she end the friendship to protect you and to protect your marriage?

Are you able to snoop on her at work?

I would continue to ask her about her work, regardless.

I wish, but she works at a government facility(IR_), that I would fear getting in trouble.

So, this brings up another argument she had. Last night she was looking at work stuff, and she said something about a paper she got that showed her Personal leave taken for all of 2014. Well, I asked if I could look at it, and she asked "Why". I said I am just curious, and want to look at it. She gave it to me, and I just looked it over, and matched up dates and times that I can remember. Anyways, she comes in a few minutes later all mad and says. "Why don't you just say that you want to look at it because you don't trust me", or something to that effect. Well I just explained that I wanted to look it over, and I didn't want to upset her. I know I shouldn't have even looked at it for those reasons either. Anyways she was mad at me the rest of the evening.

I need to just find a way to get the affair out of my mind. I just feel helpless.

IMO, you feel helpless because your WW is not invested in recovery. It seems she has no intention of following EPs and is continuing to gaslight you, and you are going along with it.

She still does things secretly (deleting texts, hesitant to show you work documents, etc.) and uses LB's and gas lighting to maintain her ability to do so (calling you controlling, having a temper tantrum bc you wanted to look at her work documents). She continues to have OS friendships as long as she has a good reason, such as that they are gay.

And it seems you are going along with it, in an attempt to make her feel comfortable/trusted/happy with you.

Your sacrificing and giving her the go ahead to continue breaking EP's, even if they bother you, is showing her that you have no boundaries and that you will not do anything about her breaking EP's.

As far as wanting her to feel like you are her friend, that does not mean you need to agree with everything she says or does. You can respectfully disagree with things, or tell her that it bothers you. It seems you do not want to for fear of her love busting response.

What are her EPs? Does she not understand the threat of Opposite Sex friendships?

She's going to need to get a new job. You will never feel safe as long as she works where you are not allowed to check up on her.

In her defense, she was very sorry about the deleting of the texts, and said many times that she will not do it again. Also, the thing with her being upset about the leave calendar, she says that she was not upset that I wanted to look at it, because she knew there was nothing there to find. She says she was upset that I lied to her, by not just telling her the real reason I wanted to look at it.

I will address the OS friendship with her tonight. I was definitely giving her the go ahead, because I felt no threat at all, but as Prisca pointed out earlier, even though he is gay, he can still make LB deposits, which just takes away from me.

She has agreed to give me access to everything from her phone to email, and her Ipad. (this has been great until the other night when she deleted texts) She has agreed to be honest with me at all times.

She says she now understands why OS Friendships are so dangerous, and she says she will not have any personal conversations with members of the OS. (I guess myself and her dismissed GF, because we didn't view him as a threat) I can see now that this is not the case. She has agreed to never speak to OM ever again, and if for some freak reason, she ever saw him again, she says she will immediately let me know.

She accounts for all her time. There is never a time during the day, that I do not know where she is. She keeps me updated on everything.

She is on board with UA time, and understands why it is important.

One thing that would probably benefit both of us, would be to actually write down these EP's, and clarify each one individually. Any input on how to do this would be appreciated.

Bottom line, is having these defined, and actually executing them properly, are two different things. There is often grey area that we struggle defining what is acceptable, and what is not.

I agree that a new job would be very beneficial. I wish I could convince her of this. She has put forth a lot of effort to make me feel better about her work situation, and it has helped greatly. You are right though, that as long as she works there, I will probably never feel completely safe. I am still triggered every time I see that building.

Is she onboard with MB?

Will she come here and post?

Do you own SAA?

What does she say when you tell her it bothers you that she still works there?

She is on board with MB. There was a time when if I mentioned anything about MB, she would get mad and tell me that it was a waste of time, and that she didn't trust anything that had anything to do with MB. That mostly came from exposure last summer. Since then, she has opened up and will read the articles, and agrees with most concepts.

I have never asked her if she would come and post here. I doubt she would, but I will ask.

I do not own SAA, and I have mentioned the book, but it only makes her mad because of what was discussed earlier in this thread. She will say "We do not need to read that, because I didn't have an Affair".

I do own HNHN, and Lover busters, and she is fine with them, even though we havent been able to read too much in them yet. We also have the 5 Steps to romantic love workbook, that we have started filling out some of the worksheets.

Whenever we discuss her not working there, it comes down to two things. 1.) We would be in financial ruin, and have to claim bankruptcy. 2.) She does not want to lose her 17 years of pension.

You realize there are 1000 + reasons to rationalize an affair by describing what it was not! because.... It wasn't sexual. It was only business/project to complete. He needed encouragement. I needed to help him through this problem...

And now there will be 1000+ reasons to rationalize not leaving her job! Now its about what she will lose.

She was having IC in away that was meeting her/his needs emotionally and she would not have wanted you to know what she was in discussion with him about while she was doing it. And he was meeting her needs at a higher level than you. She replaced you. You felt the pain. She got a high from it. She can't 'get' your pain and you can't 'get' her high.

Just as the definition of affair is not important as what happened hurt you, her 'good reason' to stay at and not leave her job is not important because it hurts you for her to stay!

I called Dr Harley about a similar issue with my ex back in 2009 - "benign" texts that he had erased. Apologized profusely but I couldn't understand WHY he would do this??

He basically told me that my ex hadn't given up his SSL.


I don't want to alarm you but just want you to keep your eyes open. Also need to make sure you are creating an environment where your W feels safe to be radically honest with you (and I don't mean to imply that you aren't) - an environment free from DJ and AO.

Hang in there.

I agree. I think you need to put spyware on all her devices. She shouldn't be deleting anything from you if they are "innocent" texts.

Agree very strongly with this.

I am trying my best to create that kind of environment. I do think that she still lives a SSL, just in the fact that she will still make comments like "You don't have to know every little detail about what I do". I get the impression, that she just likes being independent. She still shows a lot of signs of IB. Today she mentioned wanting to make more time to read Love Busters. She is very open to these discussions, and she understands that both of us struggle with LB's.

She is an amazing woman, and I love her more than anything in this world, so we will just keep working and learning. I am really thankful for this forum, because over the last 8 months, I have learned so much. Despite some of these struggles we have, I am very optimistic of the progress we have made the last 4 months.