I wish there was a simple solution to this one. If OM still worked there, it would be no question. To be honest, I am hardly ever triggered by things related to her job. There are some things, but my main triggers happen through daily aspects of my life. Mostly things her and I did while I was being deceived. I am triggered by certain restaurants, and places. I am triggered sometimes when she gets texts, just because I think about her being excited about receiving texts from him. She still has the same stupid phone that she had through this whole ordeal, so I think it would do us good to get her a new one.

Funny timing as I was getting ready to write up a post to you mentioning the fact that while the OS friendship is a concern that needs to be addressed - a larger issue I see with that is that it is indicative that she is not taking your feelings into consideration when making decisions aka IB aka rejecting POJA.

I am happy to hear she is willing to work on this issue with you. Perhaps you should consider writing to the Harleys and having him hammer her about these issues.

Because SSL + IB is basically = wayward

What about moving?

I am not surprised to hear that she would reject your request because she isn't using POJA, yet.

Pls consider the radio show and or the online program and having Dr Harley work on this issue with her.

Because even if she doesn't have another affair, the lack of POJA is very likely to lead to an unhappy marriage.

I do agree, that there is a lack of POJA, but the good thing, is she is open to it, and has been learning basics. She mostly was not aware that some of these behaviors IB's, and SSL, were destructive to our marriage. She is starting to recognize this. I really think as we study Love Busters, she and I are going to recognize things we need to change. I have changed a lot of things over the last year, and I still recognize a lot of things I still need to change.

BH,

Moving would be good too. We have discussed this also. The market is crazy right now in our area. I think this would help because a lot of my triggers are at home.

Moving will not only help, but it will help eliminate triggers. Dr. Harley recommends moving.

I really think you should move. There are many posters where moving helped tremendously with their recovery.

So, we just had this conversation, and I explained that I was not okay with her OS friendship. Her reply was "I understand, but it does not mean that I agree"

What do I say to this?

"So you won't stop OS friendships to protect me and our marriage"?

So I did just ask this, and I even said would you stop this OS friendship if I told you that it hurts me and triggers me? Her response was "I don't agree that it is a problem, so it doesn't matter that you want me to stop." She then explained that he is not a problem at all, and she enjoys his friendship. So basically no, she will not end that friendship. She tells me, that I am way out of line on this one.

Your W is more committed to her independent behavior than protecting you and your marriage. She is not interested in protecting your feelings.

The book, "Surviving an Affair", has two index couples. One of the examples describes an emotional affair (not physical) between a man and his co-worker. I believe you and your wife would benefit from reading about emotional affairs.

AM

I agree. I will work on this. I will start by ordering it. Is there any parts of this story on the MB site?

You are constantly triggered because you are not in a safe relationship with your wife. She does not care about how you feel. She simply judges her actions based on her own intent and cannot see how her actions are hurting you. You will not be able to recover your marriage under these conditions.

I'd suggest coaching help from Dr Jennifer Harley or call Dr Harley on the radio program.

I would stop trying to make her agree with you. Equally don't let her do the same. She feels the tantrums and 'I'll do it anyway' are persuasive in showing you how out of line you are. Actions are persuasive after all.

Her reaction to your wanting to see a simple document was alarming, ridiculous and I would have called a PI instantly in your case. Spyware on the phone at least.

The problem is her accusations are working. I can tell from your posts that you are responding with a hesitant look on your face and a hopelessness of how to be appealing to her which does not make her fear facing any music any time soon.

Make your responses briefer and firmer. Act as though it's her responsibility to care for you, not your responsibility to debate and argue for that care.

You could do that with a poker face and remarking that you find her attitude a shame. Or a brief 'dissapointed but suit yourself' face. Or even smiling and saying you don't want her to trouble herself unless she really wants to help you out on this. If she doesn't that's....interesting.

In short, act like a man with options who expects care. Not like a man who will love her 'no matter what' in the hope of getting some crumbs. But a man who will not accept a wife who is one in name only but who is not one in deed.

Continue to court her of course. But not like a man who desperately needs her. Who has no Plan B.

When discussing boundaries and OS Friendships in the past, she has made comments like �I don�t agree with your point of view on what is and isn�t appropriate�. I will try to make a case, by explaining the dangers, and pitfalls of OS friendships. Then she will get frustrated and say that I just am trying to make her agree with me. So I must come across as trying to �Make her agree with me�. I don�t mean to, I just wish she could see the dangers that I see.

Another thing she will do, is say �Fine! I just won�t talk to anyone if that�s what you want�. She says this in a way that comes across, as me being controlling, and not wanting her to socialize with anyone. When she does this, I just feel like a controlling jerk, when all I wanted to do was express to her the dangers of sharing personal things with member of the OS.

I need to clarify a little on this one. She only reacted the way she did to the document, because she was upset that I was thinking about the details of the affair. She said she was mad because I was beating around the bush as to why I wanted to look at it. She just implies that I am being deceitful, by not being open about why I want to look at it, when she knows darn well why.

In hind sight, upon finding out about the leave calendar, I should have waited for a good time to look at it alone, or just left the thought alone. There was nothing out of the norm on there, and I pretty much knew there wouldn�t be. I was just curious.
I do agree, that her accusations are working, because I don�t want to come across as being controlling out of fear of LB and not being attractive, or and the other side of the spectrum I don�t want to come across as being Needy. So basically sometimes I feel like I am just spinning my wheels, and not getting anywhere.
I like the thought of getting her to a place where she feels responsibility to care for me. Problem is, I think she just looks at my triggers and struggles to be my own personal problem, and that I just need to toughen up and deal with it. In moments that I am triggered, I mostly become distant, but she can pick up on it instantly, and then she will tell me that I just need to not think about things. I wish it was that easy. Although I will say I am doing much better in that area compared to 6 months ago. Back then, I couldn�t hardly sleep at night, and I would have horrible dreams when I did. It was absolutely miserable.
I like that thought. I just need to find the best way to do it.
When you say act like a man with options, do you mean make it clear that if she doesn�t care for me, then she will lose me? I do agree, that I don�t want to come across as a man who will be there no matter what, because I refuse to be stepped on and disrespected.

I kind of addressed this, but I agree, that because I am trying so hard to be the most attractive husband I can be, that I come across as needy. This might sound crazy that a man would say this, but maybe I need to cut back on SF? We have sex about 4 times a week, but I don�t want her to just think I am being needy. I want her to want to fulfill my need for SF.

You don't need to debate her or educate her (it will be seen as a DJ). The fact that OS friendships bother you is ENOUGH reason for her to stop them. She doesn't have to agree that they are a danger. She doesn't have to believe they are wrong. All she needs to agree to is that she will do what it takes to protect YOU and how YOU feel (like you will do for her).

That's the beauty of POJA. You don't have to prove that you are right and she is wrong.

"Honey, OS friendships bother me. I need you to end the friendship." That's all. Don't debate it. Don't educate her.

This is her using DJs to control YOU. Don't give in. Smile and move on to talking about something else.

If the OS friendship continues, complain about it daily. Make it short and sweet, and move on to something else to talk about.

If she continues to refuse to follow EPs, you may need to eventually separate. Again, don't threaten this when you are complaining. If it comes to that, just do it.

When I was having my affair, I would often "get upset" and "offended" whenever markos "beat around the bush" about anything that might suggest I was anything less than honest. It worked for awhile, as it made him back off. Don't give in to her DJs here. Insist you need transparency.

It's her REACTION that is alarming, not the fact that there wasn't anything out of the norm on there. Her REACTION says she is not dedicated to transparency. And she will make you feel like a jerk for asking.

You are succeeding in not coming across as controlling -- but you have swung to the opposite extreme and are coming across as whipped.

You need to man up here, and while not being demanding or disrespectful, you need to continue to insist that she protect you.

"Honey, OS friendships bother me. I need you to end them."
Short. Sweet. To the point. Respectful. Not demanding. Not controlling. Just your feelings, and a request that she protect you.

You don't need to threaten to leave her or divorce her. People do not respond to threats. But you know you have those options. YOU know you don't have to live with a woman who will not care for you. Continue to make your requests, as if you expect her to actually act on them.

How long have you been at this? How long has she been in No Contact?


SF is not your problem. "Being needy" is not your problem, because you DO need her to meet your needs. There's nothing wrong with that. Continue to have it whenever she is willing.

Your problems is letting her scare you into letting her do whatever she wants, because if you don't, she will punish you with DJs.

Prisca,

First of all, let me thank you for taking time to coach me. I really do appreciate your insight, along with everyone else that has chimed in. I started this thread trying to find answers to my constant thoughts and triggers, but you guys have given me tremendous insight into some of the things I have been overlooking in our recovery. Some of the things you have pointed out, really hit home, and I do realize they need to be changed.


Well, I was under the illusion last summer, that as long as they were not speaking to each other at all, that I could consider that No Contact. I soon realized(thanks to MB forum), that it is virtually impossible to say there is no contact when they have the possibility of seeing each other AT ALL. Even seeing each other from a distance with no words said, is still contact in my book. A couple months after D-day,I started seeing signs, that he was trying to get my wife�s attention again, by some of the things she would tell me he was doing. I told her that the only reason he was doing those things, is because he is trying to reach out to her. He was just trying to get her to react. It worked, because eventually, sometime in July of 2014, she left a note in his truck that said. �You don�t have to be a jerk�.

Finally in July, I woke up, and realized that I had to expose to everyone, and especially in the workplace. This was the best decision I have ever made. I was able to shake things up so bad for him at work, that he eventually left. His boss was a woman, and she was not happy to hear what he had been saying to my wife. She immediately transferred him out of the area, and I guess he didn't like where he was sent to, so he left.

So , to answer your question�She has not seen his face, or heard from him in 4 months, and it has made all the difference in the world. Little by little I started feeling like I had my wife back. I still have had my bad days since then, but things have been much more stable the last 4 months.


This is definitely a problem. I have put so much effort into plan A, and being a perfect husband, that when she uses DJ�s, or AO�s or shows IB, I just brush it off because I am so focused on being attractive to her. The problem that I am starting to realize with this, is her LB�s, are making her less attractive to me. Don�t get me wrong. I love her so much, and I am attracted to her, but sometimes she will do things that make me realize how inconsiderate she is of my feelings. I definitely still feel like I am not #1 on her priority list. Because of the changes I have made, she is certainly #1 on my list. My life revolves around her, which I love.

I just feel like by doing some of the things you guys have suggested, that maybe she will take more responsibility for driving the recovery plan. I need her to understand that as husband and wife, it is our job to protect each other, and making the necessary adjustments to do so.

Sorry if I missed it, but are you doing any coaching at all? Online program or coaching with the Harleys?

If not, I would highly suggest that. They will likely start with eliminating LB's. Since LB's take a toll on the love bank, of course they make her less attractive to you. It is important to eliminate those completely when you are building a great marriage, otherwise filling needs while continuing to LB is like putting water in a bucket with a hole in it.

It is helpful to have someone else talk to her about the LB's like her independent behavior and tantrums, instead of just you.

While I would agree we need to allow some room for "learning" MB, I don't think the fact that she hasn't "learned" it is your W's issue. She had an affair and continues to reject POJA, EPs and cling to her SSL despite the immense pain she has caused you.

I llike the approach that Prisca suggested to you because I fear if you continually try to educate your W on MB vs letting her know your feelings in a straightforward manner, she will just continue to gaslight you and eventually reject MB altogether, using it against you. A couple of other situations where people who tried to recover with a spouse like yours come to mind.

Again I am going to recommend that you try to get her enrolled into the online program where there will be accountability and a third party hammering her vs you.

I would really like to do the MB counseling. I am going to start suggesting this to my W. I think the 3rd party would be very beneficial. My W is a firecracker, and is very blunt, and will say whatever she is thinking. It would be really good for her to start recognizing her own LB's.

Plan A, though, is not Plan Doormat. Even in Plan A, you need to make sure you listen to your Taker and not just your Giver. Complaining, respectfully, is very much a part of Plan A. Letting her know what YOU need and what bothers you is very much a part of Plan A.