One night I asked. I was thinking it for a while, but then I finally popped the question: "Will you marry me".

Right from the most horrifying nightmare, she replied: "I don't know". And then proceed to tell me that she is no longer in love with me and doesn't want to live in a relationship without love.

As you would expect, I reacted like most of us do: confusion, tears, all the "wrong" stuff. I was in shock. I guess I was also in denial.

A few weeks have passed and everything has changed slowly: she stopped holding hands, she dresses privately and I no longer can see her naked. We were together for 5,5 years, we have 2 children: 4 and 2 years old. I was happy and now this.

Its funny how such a small thing, as to see the love of your life undressing like a total stranger, can hurt so much. She has pulled all the loving gestures away, to a roommate level. Hell, my heart is so broken, I do not know what to do!

I read a lot of books over the course of the last 2 weeks, I read strategies, plans (180, plan A), forums, letters, blogs.

Sometimes I feel elated, like I can bring us together. Sometimes its utter despair.

We have spoken about this, first time it was right after I popped the question, second time a few days later, third time 10 days later. She is now done speaking, she says that all has been said. She told me that "its not you, its me". What bulls**t.

I pushed her once, I found out that I could have helped more with the kids. But I am a freaking super dad! I take them to and from the kindergarten, I cook and clean and play with them and put them to sleep. I love them and they love me back.

She is not telling me why her love has faded, probably she doesn't know herself. Or she does, and won't tell me, although she is really straightforward. What the hell should I do now?

My intentions are to keep the family together, make the changes that she requires from me (if only I knew what those are, I have made mistakes, but I have never cheated, hit her, called her names or put her down).

I have read "My wife doesn't love me anymore", "I love you, but I am not in love with you" and a lot of more books. They all are based on the fact that we should talk, openly so I could hear her. But she won't talk to me. We only chit chat about meaningless stuff like her work, my work, what to do with the kids next weekends and so forth.

She still hugs me when we go to work like we used to. Only now she won't look at me. Its cold, like there is a wall between us. Today she left to go out with our mutual friend (yes, girlfriend, I checked), and her hand sled over my side like it used to. It made me happy, but I guess its just a habit.

She makes a happy face, I make a happy face. But. She has tears on her eyes, she gets upset about the smallest things, she is in pain. And I love her and I want to help.

So much is on stake, what the heck should I do? She simply won't talk to me, but I know her long enough to see she is suffering. She says she has no love left for anyone but her children, even for herself. I feel for sure she is not in love with me. I even envy the kids, they get her love.

Now, what should I do next? I currently left her alone, I don't call her during the day, I won't initiate conversations, only minimal. I won't initiate physical contact anymore, because I don't want to feel needy and she clearly doesn't want any. Besides the hugs? Or is she faking, pity, guilt? I don't know. All I know is that my world is broken and I am completely lost.

What would you do? I know I am not alone in this, I know you all have your stories, your advice. What would you do?

P.S. English is not my native language, so bear with my grammar.

Namad, welcome to MB, so sorry to hear what brought you here. How about asking her, what would you need to see from me, to win you back? I would say keep doing what you're doing with the kids, because this must be hard on them, too. Maybe you can talk with your family and hers to get insight on what was missing as well. My first guess is that she was sad that it took this long to get married, even after two kids, so she had lost her faith in you.

Welcome to MB.

It sounds like she has met someone else. Why have you waited so long to get married? After 2 kids and 5.5 years?

Have you done some snooping?

Have you read Dr. Harley's material on living together before marriage?

Please read this. Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

Here.
Living Together Before Marriage: Compatibility Test or Curse?

Sir,

The books which you reference are written for married couples.
Your girlfriend never made a commitment to you. Apparently you never offered to make a formal commitment to her until recently by asking her to marry you.

I think the best book you could read at this point is Buyers Renters Freeloaders by Dr. Bill Harley. It can give you some tips.

In the meantime, do not fight with her and say nothing critical of her.

Thanks for your insight. Those books say in the first paragraph that they are intended for married couples and for those who made long term commitments. We decided to have kids, both were planned, both were wanted.

Not getting married is actuallt very common here, but that doesn't mean you are not right. It might be that she has lost qaith in me. Actually she said that if I had adked her a couple of month earlier she would have said definitely yes. Which brings me to thr question, would we be in the same place right now, were we engaged? Fundamentally nothing would have changed.

But it is what it is. Have you more advoce for me, I will read the books.

I suspevted she might have an EA and as for snooping, yes I have done some. Nothing. Either she is hiding her tracks really good, or she isn't doing anything. I have also asked our mutual friend, my partner doesn't know it, but she confirmed that she congessed to her that there is noone new waiting. Of course that also means nothing, if she doesn't tell anyone.

I do not feel good about spying behind her back, if there is something, they will make a mistake and I will comfront her. Funny thing is, I would forgive her, I know it.

Currently there is not much I can do but to take care of myself and the kids. And to support her, if she wishes. I try not to sound and act desperate. All I want now, is to get out of this circle.

Have you read what Dr. Harley says about snooping?

Snooping: Is it wrong? Or, is it the right thing to do in marriage?

That article is written for married couples.
she doesn't want to marry him.
They have made no formal commitments.

Jedi I was just giving him Dr. Harley's advice on snooping. If you would pay attention to the quote(that I copied) he said why he wouldn't snoop and I was just giving him Dr. Harley's advice on snooping.

This is to help educate posters on Dr. Harley's advice. That is why I asked him if he had seen Dr. Harley's advice.

Thanks for sticking the knife deeper

But do not argue. I read the article, I am torn. I would like to know, but it is kinda unethical.

As for the article, we know each other facebook/phone passwords. We just won't use them.

Okay, I have to admit, I checked her phone. There was nothing, it was too clean if you know what I mean. I have also noticed a change in her phone usage, she hides the display and carries it with her. On the other hand, she leaves her phone unattended also from time to time like she used to.

I kinda have mixed feelings about that, or, if she has an affair, they have agreed only to communicate on her initiative. So she doesn't have to worry for incoming messages.

I confronted her, and she said i was imagining things (textbook) and that here is my phone, check it (textbook, as she was sure she had erased all the evidence), or, she is telling the truth. Go figure.

If I put 1 + 1 together, it all adds up. But I cannot prove it. Thus I have nothing left but to wait for the mistake. Or what should I do? I can probably hire a P.I. and let him take care of the facebook messages and tailing. But I am unsure this is it.

Snooping isn't unethical at all! Now, between unmarried people, perhaps there is a problem, but Dr. Harley strongly advocates snooping between married couples. Spouses should be completely transparent with virtually no possibility of a secret second life.

I don't see an answer to the question about why you never married the mother of your children. Is it simply because cohabiting without a formal and legal commitment is common where you live?

All the signs indicate your girlfriend is romantically interested in another person. Since you never married her, it's not an affair, although I understand it hurts tremendously; however, there was no formal vow that you would each remain faithful to each other.

I would find out if she is indeed interested in someone else. Meanwhile, be a great partner to her and ask her to marry you, that you made a grave error in waiting so long.

Yes I understand but this poster is not married. Suppose he scoops, hires a PI and discovers that his partner is planning on leaving him for another man.
In the case of marital adultery, Dr Harley would encourage exposure after gaining evidence of an affair.
But in the case of cheating domestic partners, Dr. Harley recommends against exposure.

In this mans case, the best action he can take is to "plan A" and try to win her back. Since he has lived with her for nearly 6 years, he should know what makes her happy.
What are her main complaints about him? Has he eliminated those?
What are her top emotional needs? How does he try to meet those daily?

It is possible that she may be philosophically opposed to marriage.
When he reads the Buyers Renters Freeloaders book he will learn the philosophical differences between living together and marriage. One involves a commitment made legally with a legal contract. The other does not carry that commitment. As the book explains, one foot is always out the door in such relationships.

Nobody was telling him to expose.

We never married, well, just because. I never asked, she never implied. It was alway the wrong timr. Financially, children too small. Its also not common here, 8 out of 10 couples never marry. We even have the law giving unmarried couples the same rights as married ones.

I do regret not asking her a lot sooner, but that changes nothing now.

Jedi, you can talk direct to me, not in 3rd person. About you questions:
The only thing I got from her, was that I should have contributed more towards the childrens needs outside the house. Doctors, sicial life etc. That I aknoledged and I am being more active and involved. But there is definitely more, but its something she says she cannot put her finger to.

Her top enotional needs. I am too affectionate, she needs more space. Check. She likes small gifts, I have given her nice words and small deeds. I am doing small gifts, but I do not want to overdo. It would seem too desperate. Or not?

I listen to her much better, just let her talk without interruptions. Her complaint has been that I talk too much and too lowd. Its hard, but I am trying to listen more and talk less. Its a quality in me I have never liked, nor worked on!

Overall I am being nice to her, giver her attention when she seems to need it. I am doing all I can. Or am I?

Pretend for a minute that we would be narried. What woukd change, how should my actions be different?

If she feels you are too affectionate and her major complaint is that you are doing too little with the kids, chances are she is out of love and has another love interest.

Women typically jump at the chance of a man wanting to improve the relationship, unless they have fallen in love with someone else. If you want her to fall back in love with you again, aim to meet the most intimate emotional needs: affection, intimate conversation, recreational compantionship (and sexual fulfillment, but only if she is enthousiastic about it, which I doubt she is, because she is not in love).

For her to have fallen in love with someone else, it does not have to be a full-blown sexual relationship. She could just as well be talking with the sympathetic guy at work who listens so well. Intimate conversation is a sure-fire way to a woman's heart. And a relationship outside of the hassles of home life, is uncomplicated by problems of everyday life.

I would read up on plan A, because you have a lot to loose if she should go away and there is much logic in your relationship with her (children), while a relationship with another man, will always be strained because of the stepchildren.

Regardless, it is ok to snoop if you can, because it can give you an advantage and while exposure is essentially meant for marriages, if in your culture living together and having children is viewed upon as a committed relationship, you may get help from her family if they see evidence that she is leaving the wonderfull father of her children for a chanceless relationship with another man.

In the mean time, not love busters and be on your best behaviour. If she does not want to join you in dates, you can try to get her to go on family fun dates and make some love bank deposits that way.

by the way, are you from the Netherlands, Denmark or Sweden?

Someone else is meeting her emotional needs...
no doubts about it!

Check facebook!

Even in countries where living together is very common, committed couples with children are circa 2 times as likely to stay together if they have married instead of just cohabitating.

None of the countries, but yes, Europe.

Today I was hurting si freaking bad, because I checkd her phone. Well, no messafes, chats, nothing. But I did find a call from one of her coworkers, at 21:34. It ladted 30 seconds, ling enough to agree to meet. She was having a cup of coffee with our mutual friend (confirmed) at the same time.

Now, I asked our mutual friend (female), what time did they part and she said a little before 11. My partner also told me by herself that they parted around eleven, so that adds up. But she didnt get home befor 2 o'clock in the morning. She also told me she was thinking and driving around. Went to the sea to look at the ships. I checked the gas meter from our car, it hasn't changed that much.

When she came home, she did what she hadn't done for a while, she came to bed and took my hand. It felt good, and I want to believe she has thought about us, but my mind tells me there is more. She also agreed in the morning to go to couples conceling, bu first time she wants to go alone. My therapist and I have tried a while her to come, I only brought out the request once, and now she agreed.

I can spy, I found out her facebook password, but those login notifications are making it impossible to get in undetected. I did it before she changed the password and I felt awful. On top of that, I found nothing. So I felt double bad. I did not check message archives and trash though, my bad.

Since counceling is next wednesday, and I want her to go, because that might bring something new up, I cannot risk with spying now. My heart bleeds, but I have to act cool. This truly sucks.

I will keep you guys updated, writing about it helps a little.