I sent this question to Dr. Harley but I thought I would put it here as well. On Friday's show he talked about making sure that before you get married both spouses are happy people, that they have support systems, friends, etc. Yet, at the same time he advocates that when you get married you spend GOBS of time together. And many people can testify how their friends went by the wayside as they got engaged and married as they were SO into their spouse. So how do you maintain yourself and being happy.. To me, this seems contradictory..

And for abused spouses he will often counsel them to get a job, find outside friends... Yet for a healthy relationship you should not do that...

So where is the line? Right now my husband and I only have each other. We have no other outside support. We are spending gobs of time together, but are both drowning trying to keep each other up all by ourselves.

The time spouses spend together should be the MOST enjoyable hours of the week. Dr. Harley specifies a minimum of 15 hours of UA time on dates that both spouses find fun and enjoyable outside the house without children and on their own. He doesn't say married couples spend an infinite number of hours together.

I have never heard Dr. Harley say that once a person marries they should give up outside interests, jobs, and friends. The Harleys each have plenty of outside interests and friends, but they carve out time for each other that is enjoyable to them both. They love being together AND they have outside interests and friends.

My H retired recently so we are capable of spending many hours together. However, I also enjoy being with friends and going to my women's Bible study. That's okay. It's not necessary to give up all your outside relationships - but it IS necessary that you both work to make each your most enjoyable recreational companion. It's necessary to make the 15 hours really count toward meeting the ENs of both spouses. It's not necessary, though, to give everything else up. I still attend my Bible study and exercise classes (women only.) We also have friends that we meet, but that's not our UA time. It's just fun times spent together with friends.

We make SURE that we plan our dates together with the best prospect of enjoyment for both of us. If either of us finds an activity boring, we give it up and find something else that we both like.

If your H can't enjoy his time because he's so tired, is there anything he can do medically or nutritionally to help boost his energy levels so he can be an enjoyable companion?

I don't know where Dr H has ever said a spouse shouldn't have any friends or no job...otherwise there won't be a healthy relationship between the spouses. Your spouse and marriage should be the priority. That doesn't mean no other people in your lives but those that are should be friends of the marriage...not those who encourage marriage wrecking behavior.

There is not an objection to having a job so long as it is not destructive to the marriage...like working in a strip club...no...working long hrs where you neglect your spouse and family...no.

Friends and a job should compliment your marriage, not destroy it.

But right now the UA time you are having isn't working for you. That's why this isn't working. When that is the case, it is tempting to look for fulfillment in other friends or in a job, but in the end your marriage can't work until your husband learns to adequately meet your needs.

I am not aware of Dr. Harley counseling abused spouses to "find outside friends." I have heard him counsel them to get a job, not so they can find fulfillment and happiness in the job, but so that they can support themselves and escape the abusive environment, building a new independent life. The purpose of the job is to enable a separation - possibly a marriage-saving separation.

Ask Dr. Harley for help making the Policy of Undivided Attention work for you. It needs to be slanted towards the wife's enjoyment, and it needs to facilitate 15+ hours of conversation she enjoys per week.

I heard this too. It will be interesting to hear them answer on the show. I am thinking that he is saying that BEFORE we get married, we should be the kind of people who are already enjoyable to be around and are capable of having a FULL life.

You and your husband have led independent lives for so long, that in a way, the interesting parts of you don't intersect right now. You both need to broaden your list of ideas.

That is why you need to BRAINSTORM for new ideas.

What about picking berries to make a pie?

What about tennis? Get a ball machine, you hit and he can pick up the balls with that metal basket thing?

Did you ever try puzzles? It can be relaxing and fun!

One fun thing to try is square dancing. We tried that, and it's not really UA time, but the group of older people were so nice and fun. The cool thing about it is that you could learn something new and he could sit down if it's too much. Then afterward, you could go out together. (ETA: I meant to go out after ALONE for UA time.)

Just some ideas...

The context of that advice was about how to look for a new spouse when the first spouse dies.

The advice was applicable to that very specific context. The point was that widowed people, and men especially, sometimes look for a new mate because they are desperate after bereavement. They then make bad choices, or they become a bad spouse themselves. His advice - to not need a spouse, and to surround yourself with friends and activities - was intended to avoid making a bad choice during the aftermath of grief.

DId you miss that context?

No we have not, that is my point!!! It was that we wrapped our whole lives around our family. My hubby was the one that believed until the children were gone they should take priority. ( He now realizes that was a mistake.) But when I discovered MB and was tracking hours we were spending 35 to 50 hours of family time each week. My husband has no friends and no hobbies. WE have no couple friends.

I am homeschooling but now only have one left. I am beyond bored. When I was working when we were first married we had tONS to talk about. Now, I feel like a boring, shell of a person...

Now with his illness, he is coming home at 2 or so everyday. So we go out and stare at each other. What do we have to say??? I take out those stupid conversation starters and it feels so wooden and he doesn't have much to say about any of them anyway...

I miss having girlfriends. I miss having friends to talk to. I miss feeling like I was helping the world and had purpose... I am beyond bored. I am a boring person and to be honest, so is hubby.

Why are you 'going out' and staring at each other? Why aren't you doing something fun?

Like what? He has no energy. We go out to eat and to movies. We stroll silently in various parks since he isn't up for hiking yet. We go shopping which he enjoys but I don't really.

I would LOVE to do something fun... Before the stroke we would play Frisbee golf or something..

We play board games out in a park, but that is boring to me as well.

You are not being very creative at all with regards to UA time. There are so many options other than dinner and movies (which, by the way, do not count towards UA time because your attention is on the movie and not on each other).

Have you done the worksheet regarding recreational activities? It offers many many items of interest that you could work with, and of course we were able to fill in things not on the worksheet. My H also has some physical limitations due to illness so I understand that there are items you might want to be doing you can't, but there are likely also many things you would both enjoy that you CAN do.

How much UA time are you getting each week?

Thank you for explaining the context, S_C.

x 2

You (and H) need to think outside the box and get out of your comfort zone....cooking classes, festivals, concerts, even indoor skydiving if you live near such a place.

Did you not read my stuff about his stroke.. ( maybe that was in the other thread...) Yes, we would have enjoyed those things before. We did go to some concerts but they are just too loud for him now and make his headache worse. Skydiving??? After a stroke, I don't think so. Plus, as I say he works part time and gets home at 2 and is completely worn out. His stamina is just gone, which from what I am learning is common with this. It takes some people 2 years or more to get their energy back..

Yes I read about his stroke. Indoor skydiving is not even close to skydiving out of an airplane...lasts maybe 3 mins per "flight." Unless H has a heart condition, it does not require stamina...you basically float with an instructor.

We live in a town of 3500, nothing like that here. Maybe in the big city 3 hours from here, which he would be worn out and tired by the time we got there...

Are you going to follow up with Dr. Harley with the things you've posted the last few days?

Black Raven was just giving you an example of thinking outside the box. So skydiving indoors or out doesn't work, what else? Having to drive a little bit away (probably not 3 hours) isn't a bad thing, it can give you time to have IC in the car.

If he wears out easily, can he come home and nap and after getting refreshed do something in the early evening?

Camping in the backyard or at a nearby lake or park?

Find some local volunteer work you could do together?

If you are looking for purpose, maybe find something you could make together that has a higher purpose like blankets for the homeless or activity kits for homeschoolers.

Plant a garden?

Learn a language or some other new skill together?

Now wait a minute, I thought volunteer work was not counted as UA time. If it is, then we can add quite a few more hours. We have a garden every year, so working on that counts? We have talked about taking a Spanish class together for our mission work, but once again, I didn't think any of that counted as UA time.

I guess I thought UA was fabulously romantic with great conversations, looking into each other eyes, making wild passionate love kind of stuff. I thought it needed to be exciting and new. To me, that is romantic.

That said, we'll have to see about the garden. He did some pruning for 45 minutes and then had to rest... It completely wore him out. Talking wears him out. We have taken some long car trips together and we travel in silence.