I thought I had PTSD for a while too and then I just realized I was doing things to trigger myself. So I quit doing them. Seriously! That does work in time.

I know that it is not a good thing to do, but I have always wanted to atleast know what the POS looked like. If I ever run into him on the street, I will make a scene. That man has caused me and my family a lot of pain. I just still have a lot of anger.

I totally understand the anger. But the solutions to these kinds of things are never easy to do. I imagine it will be very hard for you to stop looking. But that's really the only way to peace. Do you really want to keep going back to this hell you are putting yourself into?

The bottom line is that dwelling on it won't get you want you want.

Roughrock, you're not going to recover if you can't stick to the plan of recovery. Searching the OM's name online is absolutely something you shouldn't be doing. Can you stop doing that? You need to get rid of all reminders of the affair. That is a major step of the plan for recovery.

It reminds me of a radio show I was listening to one day and this lady called in for help from Dr Harley because she couldn't stop grieving over the loss of her child and it was destroying her marriage.

Well, it turns out she was constantly triggered because she had pictures of the child on the walls of her house. The advice was to take them down and store them somewhere else. Don't look at them anymore.

That's kinda what you have to do here.

I have had a bad week. I have been love busting, and the other night I tried to leave home, but my wife hid my keys. I am just in a bad way, and I don�t know if I want to recover. I want to go back to my life 18 months ago. Everything feels broken now. I want a woman that I know will be faithful to me. I want to feel safe and loved again. I thought I had everything until this mess happened. I am just in a dark place.

Have you written to Dr Harley, RR?

I think at least part of the reason you are struggling is that your W is continuing with the behaviors that led to her affair and flat out refusing your request to stop such behavior.

That is part of what happened the other night. I tried to nicely explain to her, that when she engages in conversations with other men, that it triggers me, and makes me think of her EA. I brought up an example of a conversation that bothered me. About 4 months ago, we were at my sons Basketball game, and my wife had to go stand in line in the lobby to get something to eat. I had to take my little 3 year old to the bathroom, and when I went out into the lobby area, I could see her talking to one of the dads of a kid on my sons team. What bothered me, is the way she looks so excited and engaged in these type of conversations. It really triggered me, because I could picture her talking to the OM this way.

So, when I mentioned this example to her, I just explained that it would really help me, if she would avoid conversations like that with the opposite sex. I said I am not saying you can�t say hi, and have a short cordial conversation, but it really bothers me when she engages in the conversation the way she does. I tried to say this as nice as possible, but she flipped out, and started saying that I was way out of line to even bring that up. She said how controlling I was, and then she kept saying �I guess I just won�t talk to anyone anymore�, to which I would reply � I did not say that you couldn�t talk to anyone, but that I would appreciate it if you would keep conversations with other men to a minimum. Anyways, that was two evenings ago, and she is still mad at me, and keeps saying how out of line I am for having a problem with this. I told her that I never would have even thought twice about it, if it wasn�t for the events of last year.

Am I way out of line suggesting that she shouldn�t have conversations with other men? How do we establish a boundry?
She keeps saying that I just don't want her to be herself.


Here are a few texts from yesterday after she had decided to be nice to me.

(Wife): I will be aware of what conversations i have with others. IF i don't think you'd be fine with it. I'll get out of it. If that's not good enough....I don't know what to do. You can't lock me in a closet.

(Me): By telling me "I can't lock you up", it is implying that I would somehow ever want to do that. I just told you how something made me feel. From there, you have the freedom to do whatever you want. I just mentioned limiting conversations with other men, as an example of a way to help me feel safe. I still struggle when you do this.

(Wife): Im not doing anything anymore. I can just be a "Mute", and never say a word to anyone.

(Me): If thats what you want? I never implied that I want you to be mute... It just bothers me when you engage in conversations with the Opposite Sex.

(Wife): I love you. Have a good day.

(Me): It just hurt me last night when you said I was wierd and controlling...I hate feeling like you view me that way. It just makes me never want to tell you anything again.

(Wife): Sorry....it really threw me for a huge loop. I think you are way out of line. I am a friendly person, and I like to talk to everyone. It doesn't matter to me if they are male or female.

(Me): I am sorry you can't see why I struggle with it...

No, you are not. And her reaction is alarming.

She offered to comply with everything she needs to do. It would have been better if you had just graciously accepted her offer. Instead you debated her wording and her feelings. She is being disrespectful in being hyperbolic and exaggerating: "You can't lock me up." But it is making things a lot worse for you to try to debate her.

Just accept her offer and see how she does and if she continues to engage in any specific behaviors that bother you, tell her it bothers or hurts you. Don't bring up her affair. Don't debate her. Don't try to prove to her that what you want from her is the right thing for her to do or that she should not feel controlled by your feelings.

The question is, will she protect you or will she not? She doesn't have to agree with you, but will she protect you?

If she's not willing to stop, I'm sorry to say she's headed for another affair.

Roughrock, if I were you I would immediately see my doctor about having antidepressants prescribed or adjusted. Then I would email Dr. Harley and ask him if he feels that separation might be in order. It sounds like right now you are unable or unwilling to stick to the plan for recovery, and your wife is balking as well.

Will your wife agree to stop talking to men in ways she thinks you might be bothered by? If so I believe that will be fine. Just accept it and continue to let her know if anything she does is offensive to you or bothers or hurts you. It sounds like she was willing to follow the plan but didn't feel good about it, until you debated her about it. Can you stop debating her? That's going to be imperative in order to make this work.

I am on Welbutrin� I just need to be more disciplined in avoiding triggers, and especially avoid actually searching for them. It was just hard on me this morning to actually see the SOB�s face for the first time. I am thinking a little more rational now.


I asked my wife yesterday if she would agree to stop having conversations with members of the opposite sex, other than small talk, and saying hi. She said she would be mindful of it, but if she feels like it is not a big deal, then she will continue the conversation, so she doesn�t come off as rude. She is just really easy to approach. People like to talk to her, and what I notice, is that certain guys will hang around and want to talk to her(like the neighbor the other day). I just told her this bothers me, and she needs to find clever ways to cut off the conversation.

I am not sure what �Mindful� means? Should I just take if for what it is? I guess at least she is aware of my concern, and what I am okay with.


I will do my best to stop debating her. I know that it never helps the situation. The only thing she ever says when I debate her, is �You just won�t stop until I agree with you�. I need to just shut up�

So Prisca, when I ask her if she will protect me, even though she doesn�t agree with me, and she says she will be mindful. How should I respond to this?

So what is the best way for me to lay out a clear boundary of what is acceptable? I can�t just say she can�t have conversations with other men at all. How do I define a clear line that is acceptable to me? Or do I just let her know when something she did bothers me?

If she says she will be mindful, take her at her word, and don't argue. Watch her. If she does it again, bring up the problem again. Bring it up every time she does it.

Brainstorm ideas with her on how she can quickly end a conversation without seeming rude.

I really think you need to write Dr. Harley about this, as Susie has recommended. Are you going to? I am concerned that she is headed for another affair.

You can't use words like "acceptable." You've got to be super respectful with her if you are going to get anywhere. Keep complaining every time she does it "That bothers me. I need it to stop."

Is she wrong? Hell yes. She's as wrong as wrong can be. But what are you going to do about it? Lecturing her doesn't work. Educating her won't work. You will have to gently persuade her. You CANNOT disrespect her. You CANNOT make a demands. You CANNOT get angry. You CANNOT FIGHT.

Calmly let her know it bothers you, and you need it to stop. Brainstorm ideas with her on how to make it stop. Turn it into a problem you can solve together.

And she may flippantly throw it back in your face and try to hurt you, and tell you she has no intention of figuring out a way to stop it. Keep gently complaining.

And write Dr. Harley.

I will work on writing Dr. Harley. I am just a little stumped on what to say, and how to sum it all up...I will get working on it.

Here you go:

Dr. Harley,

My wife had an Emotional Affair last year (although she doesn't agree that it was an affair). We spent 6 months in a false recovery, because I trusted that my wife would end things. Because of this, when I discovered what was going on (D-day), it was like I was hit by a train. I have never felt so much pain, and I still shake when I think about that day. The OM is out of the picture now, though.

She accounts for all her time. There is never a time during the day, that I do not know where she is. She keeps me updated on everything. She is on board with UA time, and understands why it is important.

BUT ...

She is flirtatious with other men.

We took the kids bowling with a neighbor and his kids. The way he has carried on conversations with my wife in the past has bothered me. That night he hung around for a bit while we were finishing up bowling, and everyone was having fun, but I started to notice flirtatious behavior on my wife's part towards him. Later that evening, I mentioned to her that the way he talks to her bothers me. She got mad and told me that I am so paranoid. She says "I am not going to be rude". So I just said please be mindful of my feelings, and just know that it bothers me. I asked her to just be short, and not carry on the conversation. Anyways she thinks I am way out of line. It just gave me a bad feeling when they interacted, and it triggered me.

She seems to invite this flirting atmosphere.

And she has an opposite sex friendship with a gay man that bothers me. I asked her "Would you stop this OS friendship if I told you that it hurts me and triggers me? Her response was "I don't agree that it is a problem, so it doesn't matter that you want me to stop." She then explained that he is not a problem at all, and she enjoys his friendship. So basically no, she will not end that friendship. She tells me, that I am way out of line on this one.

She doesn't take my feelings into account. She seems to enjoy Independent Behavior and rejects the POJA, and if it bothers me then she says I'm controlling.

I asked my wife yesterday if she would agree to stop having conversations with members of the opposite sex, other than small talk, and saying hi. She said she would be mindful of it, but if she feels like it is not a big deal, then she will continue the conversation, so she doesn�t come off as rude. She is just really easy to approach. People like to talk to her, and what I notice, is that certain guys will hang around and want to talk to her (like the neighbor the other day). I just told her this bothers me, and she needs to find clever ways to cut off the conversation.

She thinks I was way out of line for being uncomfortable with the situation with the neighbor the other night, because in her mind she didn�t see anything wrong.

How can I get my wife onboard with POJA and giving up her Independent Behavior?

Thank you for the advice. This is the conversation we just had through text... I know the things I said weren't perfect, but she responded well to them.

(Wife):
Do you want to go to dinner with my parents tomorrow?

(Me):
That would be fun. If you can get along with me???

(Wife):
Of course...if you're nice.

(Me):
I was nice the other night. I just let you know how it made me feel when you engage in conversations with other men. Why is that not nice?

(Wife):
Cause you want me to not talk to others. Enough said on that. Don't bring it up.

(Me):
I know you don't agree with me, but are you willing to protect me, by not carrying on in conversations with other men? I said carrying on, as in more than how's the weather type small talk? Yes or No?

(Wife):
I told you I would long ago, it just hasn't reached your brain.

(Me):
So, that's a yes? You always beat around the bush and say stuff like you will be mindful. I just want a clear yes or no.

(Wife):
Yes, I am pretty sure I made myself clear the first time.

(Me):
I love you, and I just wanted some clarification, to know if you are committed to protecting �Us�. What if you asked me to not look at Porn, because it hurt you, and I said I would be "Mindful"... would that give you a warm fuzzy? I know you won't be perfect at it, but at least I know that you are committed to protecting me. Then I won't be afraid to let you know if something bothers me.

(Wife):
If I asked you not to look at Porn, I ask Hoping you won't, because it would hurt me, but knowing there is a chance you could. You're human.

(Me):
Very good point, and I also know that you eventually will talk to another man in a way that bothers me, and that is because you are human, but at least you know where the boundary is, and it helps us be more open, and I can let you know when something bothers me. I know you are not perfect honey. I love you so much, and I just want to be able to openly talk about these kind of things without backlash.

(Wife):
So want to go to dinner?

(Me):
Yes of course! I love being with you. Did what I say before make any sense?

(Wife):
Yes

(Me):
thanks! I LOVE YOU...

(Wife):
Love you always!


My wife doesn't say things like "Love you Always" very often, so that means she liked the conversation, and she is committed to protecting me by not carrying on conversations with the Opposite sex.