I have asked him several times when he is unhappy to post here. His reply is he doesn't see how that will help. The advice will be what has already been said.

I asked if would be interested in talking to Dr Harley as the invitation is there following the emailed questions. He says maybe if he ever has a question, right now he would not know what to say.
He wasn't very happy about my emailing. I didn't forwarn him as I expected to talk to Ms. Joyce about talking via the show versus having the email read. So certain circumstances complicated how he felt. I am unsure of his response if I do call and I am uncertain how he will feel about what I have posted today.

yes, he has watched all the videos of the Harleys discussing needs and lovebusters. We watched most of them together. He has read the book lovebusters too. And he listens to the show. We listen together sometimes.

He is trying. Some things are changing. He stopped angry outbursts cold turkey. Being emotionally level is harder for him, but I can tell he is trying.

Given time to process and (mope) as he called it seems to bring him to a place of willingness to live in a new way though in the moment of conflict he still seems antagonistic to MB principles.

It is a rollercoaster. Up and down.

One day he will be hopeless saying he was never happy with me and saying all sorts of things that I don't believe or remember to be true of our history. I have letters and such to jog my memory though maybe that was all a lie.
The next he will say he loves me and wants to be here and be a good husband, I don't deserve this kind of treatment.

I had thought UA would help. It still will, but we have spent a lot more time together than usual in the last 10 days and I am not sure if we can keep 15 hrs a week light and fun. we won't know until we get out of the house alone.

My husband feels I post here to railroad him into change and he says he is not interested in posting only to be shoved and pushed around and told what he should and should not be doing about things he already knows and understands. If he has a question he will post.
He says he has had these habits 40 yrs and they can't be changed overnight and he is onboard it just takes time. I asked if it were life and death if he could change overnight and he said no.

He isn't sure that some of these things mostly 15 hrs UA can be done by every couple.I get that point. It isn't working out easily, but I think we will find a way if we keep at it.

I told him that I am not forcing him to change but I am changing. He gets that I am willing to separate, and he says if I have to I have to. Maybe I need to take that pressure off and tell him I won't? I do not want that, but just having it on the table as my back up option seems to be hurting him.

I asked if he would prefer working with a private coach once we get 15 hrs in place. He said it sounds interesting so not sure what will happen next. Thanks for reading.

I have honestly been here for me. For you to tell me what I should work on and I have tried to be straightforward with info and asking only for help for my wrongs. I think I made things worse instead of better.

Will he write to Dr. Harley on the radio show?

Hired a babysitter for 6hrs a week on an ongoing basis if the trial period goes satisfactorily on both sides. That gives us 10-12 hrs a week locked in barring illness.
Have a list of per event basis sitters to work through for additional hrs week to week for now. 3-8 hrs seems totally doable after being in a standoff with 15.

Now that a nice way to wrap up the week.

Here goes everything!

Don't take it off the table, but don't discuss it with him. Never threaten to separate. If it comes to that, you just do it without discussing it.

I'd encourage you to go down that road. It was a vital part of mine and markos' recovery, and I cannot recommend it highly enough. Having access to Dr. Harley on the private forum, plus the coach we were assigned, was a lifesaver.

Thank you, Prisca.

Got it done. UA scheduled for the coming week. Pray our kids well. I still have one that hasn't started getting sick so it could end up stretching out another week. Coaching has been mutually chosen as an option and arranged for. It has been a good day.

Are there any threads that have real life examples of what selfish demands and angry outbursts look like? Trying to wrap my head around DrHarleys definitions.

In listening to the seminar Dr Harley included verbal attacks intended to hurt or even the score as angry outbursts. What does that look and sound like? Is it ever done without raised voice or physical aggression?

And for demands....how do I know the difference between a demand and a request? I try to accommodate everything expressed as much as physically is possible and it seemed Prisca deemed my response a few posts back as giving in to a demand versus continuing the do nothing which was what was in progress....... examples of what do nothing looks like when the demands include children would help me get the picture, I think. Are there any? Can someone make up a scenario or two?

Have you looked through the Q&A section for the examples?

Controlling Husband #2

Have you heard this show?

Radio Clip on Disrespectful Judgments
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Also have you listened to all the clips in here? Even all the clips towards the end of this thread.

Anger Management 101

I think I did, but I will listen again. Sometimes ideas are just so new I get another layer of understanding the second time through.

Thank you for taking the time to link all these.

The difference is whether or not you can say no without being punished.

If something is in progress, then it is by very definition DOING something. "Do nothing" is to be taken literally.

He came home and you were "doing nothing" (don't take this wrong -- I'm not saying you were not taking care of the kids, etc. My point here is that no demands or requests had been made at this point).

He started doing something you were not enthusiastic with.

The default was to go back to the "do nothing" you had before he came home and decided what needed to be done, NOT to just keep on doing what he wanted done. You literally do NOTHING until you can agree and are happy with the agreement.

It is easier to see how this plays out when you listen to other peoples situations. This is one reason you are encouraged to listen to the radio show everyday.

1. The wife has spent quite a bit of time in the kitchen preparing a special dinner for her family. The husband comes home with news of a promotion at work, and he wants to take the family out for dinner to celebrate. What's the default? What do they do?

2. Tonight is "family night." It has been on the schedule for weeks. The husband receives news of a retirement party for his boss, and he feels like he should go. What is the default? What do they do?

His stance: 'I feel disrespected and dismissed' thing is what's preventing the 'do nothing' action because you don't want to dismiss his feelings. However you did say you were willing to negotiate. He can't get respect with non-negotiable commands though.

Every time you feel compelled to obey, you entrench this bad habit. Instead you should just say you're sorry he feels that way and you're listening when he wants to negotiate.

Doing nothing IS frustrating - that's the whole point. The frustration motivates him to consider you only after you've made it clear nothing will get done until you're on board.

However if he feels you're not really holding a firm line on that score he's going to keep pushing for the easy way - pushing you to obey.

Willingness to negotiate and to hear his perspective with no judgement is the consideration I owe his feelings. Ok.
I already do not act independently i.e.. without considering to the best of my knowledge how he would feel about something.

I think I understand it is just a lot harder to follow through on than I had anticipated.

Got any ideas on those scenarios I posted?

Scenario #1
First of all he could ask how she feels about his idea of going out. She might not mind putting the food she made up for a later meal.

If she isn't happy about his idea they should negotiate. Maybe they go out for ice cream after eating dinner at home. Or maybe they go out and do something that doesn't involve food after eating dinner at home. Or maybe he brings home something "extra" to contribute to a celebratory meal and atmosphere.

The default is to stay home until/unless they reach a mutually enthusiastic new arrangement.

So if they haven't been able to negotiate and dinner time arrives, since eating is a health issue, at least the kids ought to be fed whatever is prepared while they continue to negotiate.

If he gets angry then she should remove the kids and herself from his presence. The same if a verbal attack begins accusing her of not caring about his promotion,etc.


So what should she do if he doesn't ask and walks in and gets
the kids excited about going out and she is the only one unhappy?







#2 the default is for him not to go unless she is enthusiastic.

They can negotiate to try to reach a solution in which he/they go with her/the family's enthusiastic support.

I don't know if family night stays on as planned though if no substitute solution is negotiated. ??? Do the kids/everyone sit around doing nothing?

What should she/the family do if he ends up staying home because no enthusiastic mutual agreement for going is reached and he is moody, grouchy, or non -participatory in the previously scheduled plans?

I had not heard this. I wish I had heard this years ago.