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I guess that is where we disagree, because I do believe I am being abused, but I guess it doesn't count when it is mental and not physical. We do too. And the quote I posted above supports that. You're abusive too. And both of you feel justified in being abusive for different reasons.
Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11)
DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
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I guess that is where we disagree, because I do believe I am being abused, but I guess it doesn't count when it is mental and not physical. huh? Where did you get that idea? We know that verbal abuse is just as damaging. I am more than willing to work on my "end of the street". What can I do to start healing our marriage? We are trying to tell you how. How am I to handle it when he starts making low blows, and saying terrible things about me, which always happens? This is when I become disrespectful in the first place. 95% of the time I am respectful until I get beaten down mentally At that point it becomes so hard to control my frustrations. He would even agree with me about that. (That it is always in reaction to him that I act in a negative manner.) Neither one of you should be disrespectful. There is no excuse for this. However, you need to understand your role in fueling these fights. Fights are started when one spouse tries to force her own desires on the other spouse. That is what you have been doing. But we can help you resolve this problem and teach you how to negotiate solutions that suit you both. There are several ways to do this. FTF and I went through the Marriage Builders program with Dr Harley [$1000] but you don't have to do that if you and your husband can go through these lessons yourself at home. If you are diligent, we can help you on this forum. The only cost outlay would be the books. [under $50]
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Here are the 3 options for turning this around: http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi9000_courses.htmlSince you are a teacher, you can probably go through the program yourself as long as your husband is on board. The books are cheap and you can get free help from us on the forum and the radio show. There are professional services for those who can't do it on their own. But many CAN do it on their own. You really only need 3 books: Lovebusters, His Needs, Her Needs and the workbook, Five Steps to Romantic Love. I would start with Lovebusters FIRST because you both need to eliminate them entirely before you try to learn negotiating skills. [trust me on this!  ] When my H and I tried to learn how to negotiate, we had a big fight in a grocery store over lettuce.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Abusive behavior usually begins when a couple tries to resolve a conflict the wrong way. Instead of finding a solution that meets the conditions of the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse), an effort is made by one spouse to force a solution on the other. Resistance to the proposal is matched by increasing force until the spouse browbeats the other into submission. Every fight is an example of abuse because it uses the tactic of emotional or physical force to resolve a conflict instead of respect and thoughtfulness.
The Love Busters -- angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments and selfish demands -- are all examples of the way one spouse tries to force his or her will onto the other. They can all be regarded as abusive ways to resolve conflicts because they all cause pain and suffering. In fact, whenever a decision is made that fails to take the feelings of the other spouse into account, a case can be made for abuse. I just read the article and the letter attached to it from the wife that was being abused. His response to her seemed to go against everything that I am being told. He tells her to go back to the counselor that she was seeing, despite the fact that he didn't want her to. The things being said here, imply that she should not go if her husband was not ok with it?! One of the reasons I am not in counseling is because I don't want to be accused of doing something wrong when I go, even if it was a woman (and I know I would be...)
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[
I just read the article and the letter attached to it from the wife that was being abused. His response to her seemed to go against everything that I am being told. He tells her to go back to the counselor that she was seeing, despite the fact that he didn't want her to. The things being said here, imply that she should not go if her husband was not ok with it?! One of the reasons I am not in counseling is because I don't want to be accused of doing something wrong when I go, even if it was a woman (and I know I would be...) No, we are not telling you the wrong thing. The case study you cited, the woman is being PHYSICALLY ABUSED and Dr Harley told her to go back to the counselor and plan for a separation. We would never tell an abused wife to use the policy of joint agreement.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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We have "His needs / her needs". I have read all of it, but he has only read parts. We got into a fight about that because "why would I be reading a book that has the word affair on the front?".
I understand that I have to quit provoking things. I do. But what y'all are implying is that he only acts that way when I am doing this. That is not the case at all. Sometimes I am just going on about my day and will get an ugly reply or a hateful text. What do I do when it is completely unprovoked????
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He hit me several times earlier in our marriage, but now he goes only as far as he thinks he can to intimidate me without "crossing the line". I told him I would report him to the police if he ever hit me again. I have been trying to protect our daughters from his anger and criticism as much as possible. But I have failed miserably. When my oldest daughter was old enough to vocalize her emotions she said she never wanted to be at home because of my husband's abusive behavior. I knew no matter how much I could take, my children didn't need to be living in that situation. In your case, you are both verbally abusing each other. Your husband does not physically abuse you [unless you are withholding some pertinent FACTS] so your life is not in danger. This woman's life is in DANGER and she should separate. However, if you believe we are giving you bad advice, you can report us to the moderators and have our posts removed. It is against the rules to give contradictory advice.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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When the abuse is something like disrespect, it can be turned around because usually it is just a poor, but nevertheless abusive strategy, at getting something done. It's still very hurtful and destroys love and self esteem.
With physical violence or threat of physical violence, it's safety first. Separation.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Abusive behavior usually begins when a couple tries to resolve a conflict the wrong way. Instead of finding a solution that meets the conditions of the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse), an effort is made by one spouse to force a solution on the other. Resistance to the proposal is matched by increasing force until the spouse browbeats the other into submission. Every fight is an example of abuse because it uses the tactic of emotional or physical force to resolve a conflict instead of respect and thoughtfulness.
The Love Busters -- angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments and selfish demands -- are all examples of the way one spouse tries to force his or her will onto the other. They can all be regarded as abusive ways to resolve conflicts because they all cause pain and suffering. In fact, whenever a decision is made that fails to take the feelings of the other spouse into account, a case can be made for abuse. I just read the article and the letter attached to it from the wife that was being abused. His response to her seemed to go against everything that I am being told. He tells her to go back to the counselor that she was seeing, despite the fact that he didn't want her to. The things being said here, imply that she should not go if her husband was not ok with it?! One of the reasons I am not in counseling is because I don't want to be accused of doing something wrong when I go, even if it was a woman (and I know I would be...) There are exceptions of course and this particular case was one of those because it involved physical abuse and an angry husband. When a mutually enthusiastic agreement is reached, everyone would agree that a couple has discovered an ideal outcome. But anyone who has had a marital conflict knows all too well that enthusiastic agreements are often difficult to reach. And the default condition, never do anything, can have very unpleasant, if not disastrous, consequences. With this in mind, I have recommended a sensible exception: The POJA should not be followed if the health and safety of a spouse is at risk. When a spouse is being subjected to physical and emotional abuse, infidelity, or abandonment, it makes no sense to follow this rule. Self protection trumps thoughtfulness in those cases.
For example, if a spouse is the victim of physical abuse, that spouse should report the abuse to authorities and separate for his or her protection, even if the abusing spouse does not agree to that response. The same can be said for infidelity. I recommend exposure of an affair by the betrayed spouse, something usually opposed by the unfaithful spouse.
Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11)
DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
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I totally understand that marriage is a compromise Then you do not understand at all, because a GOOD marriage is NOT compromise.
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We have "His needs / her needs". I have read all of it, but he has only read parts. We got into a fight about that because "why would I be reading a book that has the word affair on the front?".
I understand that I have to quit provoking things. I do. But what y'all are implying is that he only acts that way when I am doing this. That is not the case at all. Sometimes I am just going on about my day and will get an ugly reply or a hateful text. What do I do when it is completely unprovoked???? No, we are not. There is no excuse for acting that way. But you need to stop provoking it with your approach and stop reacting to his abuse with disrespect. You say you only are abusive in reaction to him and then reject his doing the same. Neither is acceptable.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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We have "His needs / her needs". I have read all of it, but he has only read parts. We got into a fight about that because "why would I be reading a book that has the word affair on the front?". What you need to read is Lovebusters. Will the two of you go through that book together? His Needs, Her Needs is useless if you are lovebusting each other.
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I totally understand that marriage is a compromise Then you do not understand at all, because a GOOD marriage is NOT compromise. Well I guess I don't then. How can two people live together and never compromise? I thought I was doing the right thing by being able/willing to compromise.
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I totally understand that marriage is a compromise Then you do not understand at all, because a GOOD marriage is NOT compromise. Well I guess I don't then. How can two people live together and never compromise? I thought I was doing the right thing by being able/willing to compromise. Here is how: I hate Chinese food and my H hates Mexican. I love Mexican and he loves Chinese. So I make a compromise with him that he endures Mexican and as an "incentive" I will go suffer through Chinese with him.
Lets say we practice a "compromise" and we go for Mexican one night and Chinese the next night. That means that I will be unhappy on one night and he will be unhappy the next because we are each gaining at the others EXPENSE for one night.
This is called sacrifice aka win/lose. It leads to incompatibility and resentment. It leads to incompatibility because people won't do things that make themselves unhappy for long. I might go for Chinese 3 or 4 times and tolerate that nasty food, but pretty soon I will be finding reasons to AVOID going out to eat and he will be resentful, because people who practice sacrifice KEEP SCORE. He will be mad because I "OWE" him a Chinese night to pay for his Mexican night.
The solution recommended by Marriage Builders avoids all that. Instead of going to ANY restaurant that one spouse doesn't like, the solution is to find a restaurant that BOTH LOVE. Mexican and Chinese are completely OFF our lists. In it's place is a list of restaurants we both like. This solution builds compatibility because it ensures we are BOTH happy and no one sacrifices at the others expense.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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He hit me several times earlier in our marriage, but now he goes only as far as he thinks he can to intimidate me without "crossing the line". I told him I would report him to the police if he ever hit me again. I have been trying to protect our daughters from his anger and criticism as much as possible. But I have failed miserably. When my oldest daughter was old enough to vocalize her emotions she said she never wanted to be at home because of my husband's abusive behavior. I knew no matter how much I could take, my children didn't need to be living in that situation. In your case, you are both verbally abusing each other. Your husband does not physically abuse you [unless you are withholding some pertinent FACTS] so your life is not in danger. This woman's life is in DANGER and she should separate. However, if you believe we are giving you bad advice, you can report us to the moderators and have our posts removed. It is against the rules to give contradictory advice. I am not trying to get anyone in trouble or anything like that....just trying to take it all in and make sure that I am expressing the situation correctly to y'all. I appreciate all of the advice and I do want to end the negative behavior on my end. I guess what I don't know is HOW to do that once all the emotions and hateful things that are said start back up. I don't know how willing he will be to read anything. I try to work on things or learn, but getting him to participate is another story. He doesn't seem to think things are really "that bad".
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What you are doing is setting yourself up for resentment. You sacrifice some, so you expect him to sacrifice some. And when he doesn't want to sacrifice, you are resentful because YOU were willing, so he should therefore also be willing.
This is a renter's mentality, and it doesn't work well for marriages.
What you need is for both of you to become buyers. Buyers never compromise, but instead look for win/win solutions that make you BOTH happy every time.
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I am not trying to get anyone in trouble or anything like that....just trying to take it all in and make sure that I am expressing the situation correctly to y'all.
I appreciate all of the advice and I do want to end the negative behavior on my end. I guess what I don't know is HOW to do that once all the emotions and hateful things that are said start back up.
I don't know how willing he will be to read anything. I try to work on things or learn, but getting him to participate is another story.
He doesn't seem to think things are really "that bad". This is where you need to sell him on the program. I sold this to my husband by focusing on something I knew he wanted. I was very independent and this drove him crazy. I would call him from a Jeep dealership to inform him I had just purchased a Jeep, for example. When he blew up I would accuse him of being "unsupportive" and "controlling." I told my husband about the policy of joint agreement, where nothing is done unless both spouses enthusiastically agree. The goal of the program is to create happy, romantic marriages where each others feel ings are always taken into account. That appealed to him. So start there and see if you can get him to go through this with you. I would start with the book Lovebusters, though.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I don't know how willing he will be to read anything. I try to work on things or learn, but getting him to participate is another story. I can see why he wouldn't want to participate in a marriage of sacrifice and compromise. Maybe after you have learned more here you can win him over to a marriage that doesn't require sacrifice and pain and compromise. You can offer him something that he will like, something that is in his own best interest - there's much more of a chance that he will be interested in that.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I try to show him that the ONLY time I am like that is in reaction to him. I learned from Dr. Harley that I needed to never have an angry outburst, no matter how my wife provoked me. I had to learn to control myself regardless of the circumstances I was in. That was one of the big keys in recovering my marriage. The angry outbursts were my choice, not my wife's.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I totally understand that marriage is a compromise Then you do not understand at all, because a GOOD marriage is NOT compromise. Well I guess I don't then. How can two people live together and never compromise? I thought I was doing the right thing by being able/willing to compromise. Have you read about the policy of joint agreement (POJA)? The Policy of Joint Agreement But you first both need to stop all the Love Busters.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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