I feel the same way. I would like to point out that you have contributed quite a bit of help yourself. I've appreciated being able to follow your story and read your perspective. Thanks Ax.

Thanks face. These are kind words.

So, I've actually been dragging my feet on the Plan B letter, but I got around to looking at the examples in the Notable Posts forum and put together a draft. I review the settlement with my attorney on Thursday and my thought is to wait until the settlement is signed to send this, in case WW is upset by it and wants to make another run at the RO or rescind her own settlement offer. Good/bad idea?

Also tell me if this is too self-righteous. It's very hard to imagine a final letter to WW that doesn't include some honest sentiment about how frustrated/disappointed I am, but I tried to limit it to what is respectful. Tell me what you guys think:

http://0bin.net/paste/1zONj-mxj4jmTWI-#-SCzDxl5KPjTOw0aYpGetyETdPYTR3324KQVYeZa984

Honestly...I don't like it. Dr. H told you your WW is likely to never follow EPs and affair proof a marriage so I don't understand sending a "Plan B" letter about potentially reconciling one day. You seem dead set on ignoring that aspect.

I can understand the first few paragraph about any failure of yours not justifying her adultery but sInce you don't have children with her, a lot of the letter seems unnecessary to me...like using an IM.

I don't think the letter is unnecessary, but perhaps an IM is given what BR said.

Did Dr. Harley really say that she won't follow EPs? I am not sure anyone can mind read who will and who won't. For example, I don't think mine will ever be willing to, but there is always a chance. There are quite a few former waywards on these boards who were ridiculously thick-headed.

I don't think any of us BSs should have false-hope. Once someone goes down this path, it's hard to get out of. However, it doesn't seem like a bad thing to make his intention of possible reconciliation known.

I agree with BR though--some language around precautions is necessary.

My thought process here is that I won't have any obligation to look at reconciling if she doesn't agree to EPs and an MB based marriage. After all, we'll already be divorced. It will be much easier to turn her down than it would be if we were still living together or legally married.

But she could surprise me. If she even agreed to ditch OS friendships, this would be a sea change in her perspective on life for as long as I've EVER known her (she's always played the "I'm a tomboy, it's easier for me to have male friends" card).

Dr. H's advice I took as being that the marriage may not be recoverable (and likely isn't) but that there wasn't any harm in trying as long as I understood R was a long shot and D was probably the more practical choice.

I don't expect any reply to this. I just see it as following through and being consistent with what I've done up to this point. I don't see any point to doing and saying all of what I did and said in Plan A if I'm not going to communicate a logical conclusion and Plan B. I understand she may not care, I guess it's more for my own peace of mind knowing that I was consistent with her. She was my wife after all.

My WW has always had OS friendships and this was an issue for us pretty much our whole marriage. Like even in pre-marriage counseling she got hammered on this. That's where Dr. H is coming from on that.

That, and I sent him some of our exchanges and he came away with the impression that she is probably a fatalist who is very unlikely to take responsibility for what has happened here, seeing all of it as "God's will". I think he is probably correct about this.

We broke up at one point during our dating where she basically got with a former love interest of hers (who was a male friend)...I won her back but in my communication during this time she expressed almost verbatim this notion Dr. H described of God being the decider of who she was in love with, like if she had feelings for someone it was His idea. She doesn't seem to understand how affairs or romantic relationships begin, and thus her poor boundaries.

Those are the reasons he didn't think she'd ever get on board with EPs.

I agree with this. And, if she ever does feel remorse for what she's done, she may be willing to go along with EPs since she was obviously wrong about the dangers of OS friendships.

In your first post you stated that SF was an issue in your marriage because WW was unwilling but this is how you described her pre-M:


Between this ^^^ and the concerns that Dr. H touched on about her being a fatalist and having OS friendships...I don't think your WW was ever a buyer.

If you feel the need to get things off your chest in a letter to her, then by all means say what you want to say to her but I still read a lot of what you wrote as hope vs wanting to accept your WW for how she is today...and maybe always was. I could be wrong about her but based on how you describe her and the behavior she has shown, that is how it looks to me.

Prayers to you axe.

I agree with this, unfortunately. I guess I'm just hoping that she will get to a point of not only wanting to recover, but also wanting to become a buyer.

I can't see myself ever getting back with her otherwise. I'm not ready to sign up for 7 more years of my pre-A marriage. Don't know if that makes sense.

It makes some of my comments in the letter feel a bit disingenuous but I don't see myself having any luck with a WW saying "you weren't committed enough to us before any of this happened and I was unhappy with the marriage".

I think it is a good letter, and not high and mighty at all. I know you have had very little communication with WW and this is a way for you to leave the departing thoughts that you still love her and are always willing to reconcile *under the right conditions.*

I think that last part is what is missing, what maybe BR has hit on. You need to let her know in some fashion that you will have conditions to reconciliation. You do not want her to think if she ends her A, you are waiting with open arms. You are but *under the right conditions* meaning EP's and a solid recovery plan, creating a marriage of extraordinary care and protection.

But I can understand that you want to communicate with her that this is not what you wanted and there is potentially still an open door for the future.

Ax,

When was your show?

The OW who ended my marriage, an old friend, was a 'tomboy who preferred male friendship' and since then, my ears pretty much always pick up and I assess the woman when I hear this.

It's never really true. Yeah, they might have say, one, so-called male interest, like sports - but really the only thing that about them that is masculine is their friends.

It's simply that they enjoy male attention. On a much deeper (and more dangerous) level than being found attractive. They need male love and approval.

I dont think offering reconciliation is even worth it with no children, but it may make you feel, as I did, like you've done all you can.

An IM is still useful without children. Lots of help in sealing up Plan B.

Radio Clip of axslinger85's Call
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Yep, and this used to drive me crazy. She couldn't comprehend why behavior that I obviously saw as flirty would bother me.

I'm really hoping against hope here that any of this will change, I have more faith in pigs learning to fly than this sort of thing changing.

This is more of a formality to me than anything likely to result in change. My timeline is dating by the beginning of 2016 and I doubt very much she will come out of the fog before then. That's my point of no return.

Everything between now and then is going to be rebuilding my life and working on my career.

http://0bin.net/paste/-2oNa8Qm9wn5M59a#Oog55KFC9SliBXyEQFv8Zw7cSV6XGLCsEslBIxERhKQ

Updated draft. I can see where I should communicate expectations as much as I do willingness here, and so I've got a timeline and a note about EPs in this version.

Just finished meeting with my attorney to review the settlement. There are some problems with WWs paperwork (she's put it together herself) that bother my attorney so she is going to contact WW and ask her to come in and sign an equivalent but properly prepared settlement in the next week.

And hopefully that will be the end of that vis a vis property.

It will be interesting to see how she responds.

Ax, I don't have any advice for your letter, but you are presumably using that website to show us the letter because you don't want your WW to be able to identify the letter later. However, the very first phrase "It is with the heaviest of hearts that I write you this letter" goes right to the MB forums when googled. You might want to change it up just a bit...

Good call nmwb77, couldn't hurt.

I'm not going to be sending it until after the settlement is signed so I have time.