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Mac,
We get two kinds of husbands with WW.
The ones who cower in the face of another man who is trying to replace them, and two, the ones who fight to defend their families in the face of a threat.
Right now, you are in the first category. You should also understand that is the path that will lead to divorce.
We get you are scared, but are you so scared you will let yourself be replaced?
You avoid this because of a 3rd birthday? Do you care if OM hosts the 4th birthday next year? Do you understand what your inaction is leading to?
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I won't skip the exposure. I know it needs to happen.
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The longer you avoid exposure, the more damage is done to your marriage and the harder recovery becomes.
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I won't skip the exposure. I know it needs to happen. At this point that is the top priority. There is no chance in getting your wife to think straight while this is going on. It has to be stopped immediately and the surest way to do that is exposure as far and wide as possible and as soon as possible. I believe the evidence you have suffices. That should be your main focus until it's done.
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Sigh. No I'm not ready for exposure yet. I'm terrified about that.
She sent me an email today while I was at work asking for a "truce" so that we'd stop talking about it because it's upsetting both of us. Neither one of us can sleep, etc. Of course, last night she couldn't sleep because she was chatting with buddy. She reiterated that she wasn't going anywhere for now, we're keeping the family intact for sake of kids. But she's over me. Buddy had nothing to do with it, etc. They're friends and it makes her feel better (yes the crack). But she can't believe that I'd think I'd run off with someone else, especially at this time when she's so broken, etc. She's focussed on living in the moment and we'll see where this path leads us. Wants us to stop being awkward around each other and live normally (but without the touching/hugging/ kissing). It made me feel better. I though our chat last night may have hit a nerve and she was ready to snap out of it and give us a chance, without necessarily saying it that way. I had a great day after that. I got home and instant knot in stomach. She's not saying much to me. Fed kids, then she went to bed-- convenient, she's dead tired so likely story. I snooped her email and she sent him a note that she had another discussion with me, sent me an email to call truce. She suspects I snooped her FB messages because I didn't seem to be grasping at straws anymore (I told her I suspected she was falling in love with him based on fact she admitted sending him emails and fact that she was always clutching her phone hiding something). I didn't divulge anything, just told her what I thought as a husband who was told his wife no longer loved him and she turned to "a friend". Anyways, she told him that they should contact by email now (easier for me to snoop). She told him that I don't seem to understand that she ended things with me before contacting him. She's tired of all this and we still have 3 months abroad before heading home-- which is another point that scares me since we're looking for a rental house together when we return (offer is in), so what does she think happens in 3 months when we return? Officially dumping me, leaving me high and dry? Starting the physical relationship with him? That email was no more than venting to a friend, but told him not to sending "private" stuff on FB to avoid giving me ammo in case I'm snooping. So while I thought out email exchange may have been a step in the right direction, it seems once more that she's lying to keep me clueless and subdued and she's not stopping him from sending lovey-dovey emails.
So I still want to collect evidence, just in case I see that she's keeping him at bay.
Like I said, we're abroad with our 3 kids. She's homeschooling two of the kids, no real friends apart from one set of acquaintances. Although I know it'll likely end the affair, I'm afraid the exposure would create havoc here. Another tidbit... next weekend is our son's 3rd birthday. I would rather not be in a crap-storm that day for his sake. Second, the following weekend is her 40th birthday... we had planned something special as a family and still committed to it. I would also rather not destroy that day with exposure before hand. It would be a memory that I'd rather be protected rather than remembered as that period I exposed her to the world. We're having dinner in the Eiffel tower... I know, cry for me. Timing couldn't be worst.
I've taken your advice. No more relationship talk, no more about the affair. I'm supportive and loving. Should I change my FB pictures to that of our family or me and her? Or would that be too obvious and grating for her? I had thought of doing it a few days ago, but now I'm not so sure it's a good idea. I wanted to post the pictures and tag her in them so that buddy can see them as well (we're not FB friends).
Thanks, Awwww. So glad her claptrap makes you 'feel better' while your kids lose their mother. Translation: you sat down and had a few puffs of what she's smoking. You feel so much better when she's leading you the Hope House of Mirrors, that you just want to hang on just one more DAY! Hang logic and long term! It's not just waywards who get foggy on love. next weekend is our son's 3rd birthday. , Are you freaking kidding me? I exposed to bereaved parents on the first anniversary of the death. People here have blown apart family Christmases because the A is more important - you are chickening out over a child's bday party? So it's OK for your child to be betrayed on that day and each one leading up? You're terrified. We all were. Hands shaking as I sent out the messages. You can't say you're not ready to go over the top and expect to win the war.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I won't skip the exposure. I know it needs to happen. Why are you talking to a drunk instead of taking the bottle away? She can't hear you and won't remember any of this.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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The Eiffel tower dinner wont work. She knows you are doing nothing about her A. The addict wants that situation to continue - but the wife side of her judges you for it.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I won't skip the exposure. I know it needs to happen. The perfect time is now, not later. You will always find a multitude of "reasons" to put this off if you are looking.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Mac,
I'm going to be a bit of a counterweight here and say make sure your evidence is solid before you expose. Your wife is going to want to control everyone's reaction and the better your evidence is, the less she will be able to do that. Friends and relatives of waywards love to find excuses and practice denial of what is rather obvious to everyone else.
From what you've said about their emails already to this point, it looks pretty damning to me. Is there any way you could summarize more of what exactly has been said between them? The vets here have helped other posters hundreds or thousands of times and will be able to tell you when you've got your smoking gun.
Another aspect of this is you need to be confident and assertive about this, and be ready for that. People are going to try to talk you into believing that you're making assumptions or that you're jumping to conclusions. You need to be firm with these people and stick to your guns when you go to expose.
The "truce" talk is a trap. It means that your wife wants you to sit back and be a nice boy while she demolishes your family and runs off with OM. My wife acted the same way. While you don't want to pursue conflict with her, she needs to understand clearly that while she may want to pursue abandoning your marriage, you are not interested. You can say this respectfully when the topic comes up. If she asks for a "truce" that actually means "agree to give up on the marriage" you can simply keep it to "I care about you and am not interested in a divorce" and leave it there. She may want that, but you don't have to help her with it and she would much prefer that you did so she can offload some of her guilt onto you. "See, he wants it too!"
I would not believe her timeline you mentioned at the beginning of her wanting to "stay with you for the sake of your kids" for one minute. She is wandering aimlessly in the fog right now, she probably has no idea what she wants to do in 3 weeks let alone a year.
I think you are doing alright here, but I agree with the others about the 40th birthday deal, for three reasons:
(1) You WILL be miserable trying to keep up a charade during this birthday party, and I would bet money you will physically feel ill if you all are planning to eat there. Yes, it was thoughtful and all, but those plans were made before your wife decided to torpedo your marriage. You are NOT unreasonable in the least to alter such plans. Your life has just fundamentally changed, whether you recover your marriage here or not. Life is not the same as it was when you planned this party and there's no reason at all to pretend it is.
(2) Your wife does NOT care about you right now and I doubt the event would mean anything to her if the affair had 3 months to develop. She'd might smile and say thanks, and then blow you off to go call OM on her cell phone. Trust me man, I have been here. My birthday was about 2 weeks before d-day in my situation (and about 2 weeks after my wife had told me many of the same things yours has and asked to separate) and my wife bought me a bag of chips as a birthday present. Not kidding. She's in lala land, dude. Things like birthdays and family events are the farthest thing from her mind. She is in the midst of adultery, family is meaningless to her right now. It's not BAD to do nice things for her, that's the whole point of Plan A, but you need to understand they are drops in the bucket for her until OM is gone.
(3) Most important reason: You cannot afford to wait 3 months. If you get sufficient evidence in 5 days, you need to expose in 6, at the latest. 3 months is more than enough time to take your situation from hopeful to hopeless. The more your wife gets wrapped up in OM, the worse off you are.
Lots here to digest from everyone. We're in your corner here, we just do not want to see you make very costly mistakes we've seen others make or have made ourselves.
Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders" 2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more. When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29 Married: 7 years Together: 8 years D-day: 10/5/2014 D filed: 1/22/2015 D Final: 6/4/2015 My story
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You're terrified. We all were. Hands shaking as I sent out the messages. Yes, exactly. Same for me too. It was a nervous rush, scared of what I was doing but hopeful because it was my only hope and satisfying because it was tearing me up to keep my wife's affair a secret.
Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders" 2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more. When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29 Married: 7 years Together: 8 years D-day: 10/5/2014 D filed: 1/22/2015 D Final: 6/4/2015 My story
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Let me just say, I didn't want to expose either. My husband has a career that he could very literally lose his job because of adultery. I was scared. I was scared ***EDIT***. Guess what? A year and a half later I have my marriage and family back together and we're well into recovery. MOSTLY because I exposed and killed the affair that way. Waiting does NOTHING to help you. Nothing!
Last edited by Ariel; 03/17/15 04:38 PM. Reason: Do not bypass the profanity filter. Dr Harley does not want profanity on his board. Please respect this.
BW-27
FWH-31
DS-6
Married several years
D-Day- 11/22/13
Plan A+Exposure
NC+Beginning of Recovery-04/2014
In Recovery and happier and more in love than ever
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The "truce" talk is a trap. It means that your wife wants you to sit back and be a nice boy while she demolishes your family and runs off with OM. Yes and she then emailed OM about the 'truce' to reassure him she had put him back in his box! Mac, you have done nothing aggressive to warrant talk of a 'truce' - they know you should be less passive. But are gaslighting you into allowing an attack. Married women are preferred mistresses for married men - but women fall too much in love to keep up the double life. They get in trouble for not managing the home deceit as well as he is. She's been instructed to manage you and prevent you causing trouble for him and his wife. That's all she cares about - doing as her dealer bids. She won't even notice you Plan A ing her before an exposure. (3) Most important reason: You cannot afford to wait 3 months. If you get sufficient evidence in 5 days, you need to expose in 6, at the latest. 3 months is more than enough time to take your situation from hopeful to hopeless. The more your wife gets wrapped up in OM, the worse off you are. I will always remember a guy who had Plan Nothinged (it's not Plan A without exposure) for many months, just trying not to annoy her or upset the affair, telling Dr H he was now ready to expose. Two years he'd waited. Dr H said there was nothing he could now do. After months of passive, doormat behaviour Dr H said he was unlikely to ever be attractive enough to win his wife back, even if the A ended. He said "It is very hard to save a marriage if you are an enabler". I've not ever seen a man get away with allowing another man consequence-free access to his wife and then recover.
Last edited by indiegirl; 03/17/15 04:19 PM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Mac,
A meek husband cannot compete with OM, who she views as a knight in shining armor.
At your dinner, you will sound like blah blah blah while she daydreams.
Reach into your trousers, get a firm grip of those two, and chase this weasel out of your family's life.
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I'll get myself ready for the exposure in the next couple of days. I think I have enough, but would have preferred a bit more. Their discussions weren't rich in damming evidence, apart from planning a meeting in July for lunch or a drink, some racy topics and him remembering she had a nice butt. They referenced discussions where they opened up about their feelings, but I don't have those emails/texts/messages, they've been deleted and I can't recover them. He made mention of her saying that they shoulda/coulda/woulda (reference to fact that they should have had sex when they dated so long ago) and that was his doorway to express his feelings, etc. She said she was happy they reconnected and had a chance to do so. She feels this all happened for a reason, and perhaps they were meant to wait because they were so special together (or something like that I don't have transcript with me). Their last chat on FB ended with him saying "Love U", and she responded with "Love U too. I promised myself I wouldn't say this on electronic devices so next time will be when I see you, if I ever get to see you". She then wrote that she'd been writing and deleting something for a couple minutes, and he encouraged her to write it and send it. She never did. He left off asking her to write it and send it out while he was away getting his kids to bed. She never did. Oh, and he asked her if she remembered the first time he told her he loved her-- she didn't remember. It was the day she left for a job, ending their relationship. He had mumbled it, she asked him to repeat he got scared said something else and drove off. To me its damning enough, but I'm afraid that most of the discussion could be explained away as two friend reminiscing about the past, an excuse to make them both feel good in difficult situations, etc. Even the "Love U" would be interpreted as something two old friends would say. It's not normal, but I wanted more. I'd like for them to say "I love you" again, make plans of some sort and certainly completely contradict the email she sent me. I can use that email to contrast story she tells me with what she tells him.
Thanks again, all. Some tough love here, that's good. She knows I'm not going down without a fight. She'll see how much I mean it pretty soon.
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I'll get myself ready for the exposure in the next couple of days. Why wait? All the delay serves is to give your wife further evidence that you don't really care about her. From her perspective, if you really cared about her you would have been right on top of this issue, driving off the OM from the get go. You failure in not catching on sooner is further evidence against you. You are way too wrapped up in yourself to appreciate the dynamics of what is really going on here. Delay and inaction are your worst enemies. Stop acting timid. This is a war for your wife's affection, and you are not going to win it by acting like a shrinking violet what doesn't really care about her.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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That's solid proof. I'll get myself ready for the exposure in the next couple of days. 'You' will never be 'ready' to do this. You do it while unready - the courage shows up after its done. Waiting makes you more nervous and the affair gets entrenched by the hour. Getting your exposure Plan ready is wise though. You should have the contact information for all targets, your template letters and ensure you will be uninterrupted while you get it done in one shot. It shouldn't take more than 24 hours to get your exposure ready.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I'll get myself ready for the exposure in the next couple of days. Every second you delay is working against you. Seconds count in a situation like this. Expose ASAP.
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When will you be exposing?
Who is on your exposure list?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Exposure list:
OM's wife, brother and anyone with same last name as him on his FB account. Will also send him an email. I now know where his wive works, I was planning on calling her- is that too direct. I don't have an email for her and thought that perhaps telling her "in person" would be more respectful. She'll likely have many questions and I'd prefer a 5 minute call than a confusing FB message followed by exposure to everyone else.
My wife's parents, brother and sister, their wife/boyfriend.
Timeline, dunno. There was no activity last night. I managed to work her email account and find a couple more emails from 10 days ago. After I first confronted her about my doubts she pushed him off and told him she had a lot of stuff to work out with me. We have kids and she needs to be fair. That missing email is putting some later discussions in context. Perhaps I need to continue building my Plan A before exposing-- shouldn't I project myself as a loving caring husband, confident... her knight in shining armour as someone put it? I haven't been that in a few days, but I want be in a position where I'm outwardly confident, demonstratively happy to be with her, etc. Then I expose. I know I'm get blamed here for delaying, etc. But lately I've been a shell of a man, and going through exposure that way not make me look any better.
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How can you be a knight while still bowing to the Dragon and trying not to upset it?!!!
You will feel stronger the minute you expose, because you are not the one being responsible for making the argument any more. Other people will do it leaving you free to be loving towards your wife.
It's impossible to Plan A before exposure - it just turns into an argument every time and she's too foggy to listen to you. She thinks 'I'm still here what's the big deal?'
You are dreadfully confused about the role of exposure in Plan A and seem to think exposure is separate.
Exposure IS Plan A. Plan A without exposure is Plan Doormat and women do not respond to that.
Sitting idly while a man contacts your wife = uncaring.
Protecting her and blocking a scuzzbucket from using her = Plan A.
Leaving your wife in a confusing fog where she doesn't know what to do = uncaring.
Making it appear the OM is the only one who really knows the true her and her faults = uncaring.
Openly declaring your love for her to the world even in the middle of a crisis of her own making = Plan A.
Trying to show off to her in private without actually helping her or taking any risk = uncaring.
Getting all the people she loves involved to help her = Plan A.
Running off the other guy = Plan A.
Keeping a cool, patient loving demeanour even though the APs are freaking out and blaming you = Plan A.
So what you propose isn't "building Plan A" it's just a way of showing you are uncaring. Too timid to really fight for her.
She is bound to have very little respect for you while the A continues under your nose and you do nothing.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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