Alada, you have been on this forum for about a year and a half. You said this early this year --


Things were looking up. What happened that led up to the mistakes of last week that you mention?

When you expressed concern about him chatting with women, he created excuses saying that they were older so it didn't matter. He should have apologized and agreed to stop the practice since you weren't enthusiastic about it.

When you discovered the porn-viewing, he tried to lie his way out of it, and dishonesty is a HUGE love buster. Porn is bad enough and most women are highly offended by it, but the dishonesty makes it much worse.

He doesn't yet understand the vital importance of the POJA. I get that since he can't understand English he can't really listen to the radio show unless you translate, but you have surely explained to him how it works, so it seems he should have more understanding.

Since you have already been so long working in recovery, I would be concerned for your health. You can't continue pushing and pushing your H into a great marriage. It takes both spouses working on it 100% to make a marriage wonderful. And a wonderful safe marriage is what would make staying after an affair worthwhile.

Does your H understand the concepts of Love Busters and what will cause you to fall in love with him? AND that it takes very little to destroy any love you might have had for him? I'm not suggesting that you lecture him. I AM suggesting that you spell out to him what it will take for you to stay in this marriage.

1.) Extraordinary Precautions for life that make YOU feel safe. And if this means no more chatting personally with women, even if they are old as dirt, then that's what needs to happen.

2.) A great marriage of extraordinary care in which you each meet the others ENs and love busters are eliminated. No dishonesty, no independent behavior, etc.

3.) The foundation of a great marriage is the POJA, so you will both need to learn to be frank about your feelings about a particular conflict. When the birthday event came up, you should say whether or not you are enthusiastic. He should be as frank. But if he wants to go and you don't and not only that, you don't want him to go either, then you don't go. You and he would find something else to do that you both enjoy.

He needs to get a job. I "think" that is the problem. he found a job on february but only stayed for two weeks, it was not what he expected. The problem with finding a job is that he is either overqualified for it, or underqualified. He is getting a degree online, but he is not fullfilled with it right now. His need is to be making money.

SF is also a problem. He had health problems and couldnt get SF, we investigated and he had high sugar levels, thus the infection. He tried a diet for two weeks and then just relaxed it. He gets extremely upset, and capitulates when I point he is overeating. But again, I think this is because of the jobless situation.

I think he does. We have gone over that while reading the books. I usually translate them for him, which is hard. So I don't know that the concept really sinks in or that he remembers any of it. I have asked him several times what are my top ENs, he doesnt know.


Yes, I get that, and he capitulates, but since he is not commited to it, he forgets and slips. He is a social butterfly and talks away all the time.




You know I certainly can think of alternatives for the bday party, like just stopping by to drop a present. Or arrive really late jus to eat cake, or what not. I think we can find an alternative, but he is just so deep into capitulating that there is no much room to poja

Would he post in Spanish?

Mmm I don't know. I can suggest it and see if he is in.

Maybe a vet here speaks some spanish?

You are in a tough spot, Alada, because you are the wife, and it is a struggle not to lecture when you feel like the teacher and translator.

But like LongWay said, you can set your boundaries and make it clear.

I think I have made myself clear before on setting boundaries. Do I do it one more time? I'm frustrated

Alada, the porn and the talking to women are two different things.

Yes, I would communicate about these issues in writing. And make it simple.

For the porn, I would write that for you, his watching porn is being unfaithful, similar to an affair. That you can't tolerate it in your marriage. That his unwillingness to create a plan to prevent it is destroying your marriage. That you need to be the ONLY source of sexual stimulation and need meeting for your husband or you can't remain married.

Yes, I get that, and he capitulates, but since he is not commited to it he forgets and slips. He is a social butterfly and talks away all the time.

[quote]

On this topic, here is where you need to focus. Maybe you are sure, since you live with him every day. But (eta: his not being committed) it could also be an assumption (DJ) on your part based on your own way of thinking. There are lots of reasons why he might forget or slip. Because he is not in your shoes, he doesn't have a pain reminder. So, a few reasons why he might forget are:

1. He just forgets. (Hard to believe, but very possible.)
2. The defined lovebuster looked different to him than to you. (He thinks that only women he's not attracted to aren't a concern for you, and he doesn't understand your need for
attention loyalty.)
3. He has impulse control issues. Just because he understands, doesn't mean that he can stop the behavior in time. This takes planning (avoiding the situation)and practice with forming a new habit. He will need to be on board with accommodating your feelings.

What you need to do is discern whether this is a WILLINGNESS problem or a CHANGING HABITS problem.

I wouldn't interrogate him. Writing it down helps you stay calm. Maybe ask him,

What do you think it would take for you to NEVER watch porn again?

What do you think it would take for you to stop being friendly to other females?

No, if your boundaries are violated you do not repeat them - you have to enforce them.

Prisca and I have been learning Spanish and could try to post to your husband if he arrives, but nothing we say in any language will do any good if you do not enforce your boundaries.

Are you prepared to separate if his intolerable behavior continues? I would be prepared to separate at a moment's notice.

Have you read Prisca's account of how she asked me to leave when I wouldn't stop my angry outbursts?

Yes, I am prepared to be separated. I do have a plan.

No, I have not read that I will look for it. Can you help me with a date so I can look for it.

I'm afraid of interrogating him. When I have done that in the past, he just shuts down and I start getting frustrated.

I can write the questions down and give them to him in advance. Don't know if that would work.

That phrase really is my own invention! Guess what experience inspired it....

I agree with Markos, you don't continue to push up, you push out.

If he's aggreable to stopping the porn, put spyware (don't let on) and password or parental protections on the computer. Make it impossible. He should also agree not to delete history.

The friendlyness to ladies - both agree what he needs to say in those situations.

I wouldn't get too hung up on MB and MBR. My dad and many other men on the planet manage to observe MB without ever having heard of it. It's called being married. As long as he listens to you it doesn't matter if he ever listens to Dr H. Especially if it's backed up with consequences.

Markos, can you help me with a date. I started looking at both you and Prisca's posts and I can't find when she asked you to leave the house.

mr alada might come, he is still thinking about it

The thread is in Prisca's signature, Alada, if you can find a post by her.

Not really, that is a (great) compilation of links on what to do with an angry husband.

I kicked Markos out in the summer of 2012 (which is when I created that Angry Husband thread).

We had been working the program for awhile by then, but Markos wasn't making much progress on his Angry Outbursts. Not too long before I kicked him out, Dr. Harley had told me that nothing would get better in our marriage until Markos stopped the AOs. He was having them on a very regular basis, and every time was a traumatic experience. I then started reading through the MB articles that Dr. Harley had written about anger and abuse, and decided that I could no longer live that way.

I made up my mind that if he ever blew up at me again, he was gone. I knew it would happen again, so I started preparing myself. I was ready to call my dad to come over and help me if Markos refused to leave, and I was also ready to call the police. I researched the best way to have my locks changed, and had numbers for a few locksmiths on hand.

The hardest part was probably the fear that I was somehow doing something wrong. Here I was, a SAHM with 6 kids, and I was going to kick the breadwinner out. That's a hurdle you just have to jump over -- if you need to separate, then BE a woman with enough strength to do it. Make up your mind and do it.

Anyway, he did have another AO one night, like I knew he would. The next day, I pretended to be asleep while he got ready for work, and when he left I got up and packed him a bag. I texted him at work and told him he couldn't live at home anymore. I was scared to death he was going to fight me on it, but he agreed, came home and got his bag, and left. I didn't even worry about where he was going, or how he was going to pay for it. I didn't allow myself to worry about him at all, although it was tempting. I moved on to the next part of my plan and focused my attention on having a wonderful time with my babies.

I was lucky in that markos stepped up to the plate and started doing what he needed to do to win me back. I allowed him to date me, so that I could see if he really was doing anything different. I allowed him to come home after a couple of weeks, too, but that was a BIG mistake and he went back to having angry outbursts again. I kicked him out once more. A couple of weeks was no where long enough to see real change.

While he was gone, I wrote him a letter listing things I needed in order to feel comfortable with ever having him come home. I had him agree to it and sign it. On the list was an agreement that if he ever had an AO again, he would be out of the house for at least a year while he worked with Dr. Harley and took anger management again. He hasn't had an angry outburst since.

The main point from all this: Don't be afraid to separate if it has come to that point. Dr. Harley says that a separation will make what was going to happen only happen sooner. Either your husband will step up to the plate and do what needs to be done and you will be happy, or he will not and you will be happy without him.

Below is one of my favorite posts from one of my favorite posters (emphasis mine). She was talking to a woman about her WH, but the thoughts apply to a husband in general who is abusive or negligent, and it really inspired me. These are the same lessons I learned when I kicked markos out, and they are invaluable:

I will add that my biggest mistakes in separating were:
1. Allowing him home too soon
2. Not telling my family what was going on
3. Not telling the kids what was going on

If you separate, don't make those same mistakes.

Thanks for taking the time to post Prisca.

In fact, I don't think I will have a problem without him. I'm the breadwinner at home, and my family is really close. I'm just clinging to him.

I think my plan is talk to him one last time about my requirements
1. No porn
2. EP
3. PoJA
4. A great marriage of extraordinary care

I will ask him if he has any special requests from me.

And make it clear that there is no next time. I do have a question here, becuase to me this sounds as a selfish demand. How do I word it to avoid SD or DJs.

Also, I don't think he undestands the severity of porn. We haven't talked again about it after sunday night, when I confronted him. I don't want to lecture him about it, is it a good idea to explain, or do you think I should just leave it alone. I feel very insecure watching TV, so many almost-nude scenes in commercials even at day hours. I don't eve want to get undressed infront of him.

Don't threaten to separate. Just be ready to if it should come to that. So I would avoid any attempts to make it clear that there is "no next time." I would just tell him "These are the things I need in our marriage." And if there is a next time, just start your plan of separation.


He doesn't need to understand the severity of porn. He doesn't even have to agree that it's a bad thing for your marriage. Don't debate him on it or lecture him about it. All he needs to know is "Porn hurts me severely and I need you to never look at it again."

So, I'm a little confused. We had this discussion in the past. When reading HNHN we both said, this is what we need. And he broke EPs, and he neglected me. Am I wrong assuming that maybe I should've done this before. I was so ready to kick him out sunday night, but wanted to ask here before doing so. Do I give it one more go?