When you say this
Then he knows your love is unconditional and he can treat you any way he chooses. There are no consequences and no motivation to change.

I agree with Didn'tQuit that you would get some amazing help on the radio show. You and your husband can speak to Dr Harley. [its free]

Words. What actions tell him he needs to earn you?
Also I find it alarming you won't insist on committed care until the children are gone. What message does that send them?

Growing up I always knew that my mother expected to be treated like a queen and that's why my father got to keep her. That was an important role model for me.

My 'more options' has nothing to do with committed care. I meant I will have more personal options for myself as the children get older. Like, time to go to things like the women's garden club or work more hours. But like Melody said, doing these things might help me get my needs met elsewhere but it doesn't help build love in my marriage. This is true so I need to shift my focus away from 'how to get my needs met somewhere' to 'how to get my needs met in my marriage'.

I will not put up with just anything in a marriage. But it would take a lot for me to walk away. There is far more good in the marriage than bad. I have deal breakers, we just haven't had to face them.

Actions, my husband sees them when I get emotionally detached. He notices. It's nothing like telling him I'm going to leave, it hasn't got to that point and I'm not going to tell him I will leave unless it is a real possibility. When he notices I start to become detached, he starts to make an effort after a while. What I need at this time is for him to make a continuing effort. I'm thinking I need to tell him I appreciate the efforts he is making more recently and that, for both of us, it would be good for us if he maintained it consistently. If that conversation comes out of this discussion and is successful, this thread will have been a success in my marriage.

I'm still reading love busters. We've had a good few days. 9 hours UA. It's been good for both of us.

MOM, I just want to reiterate that when your spouse knows you will never leave him, he has no reason to change. That is the definition of unconditional love. Being emotionally detached is not a solution and I think you know that. It is a band-aid or you wouldn't be here.


He already knows this, though. The problem is that he won't maintain it consistently. He doesn't have to. He knows that throwing you some crumbs occasionally will keep you quiet and then he can go back to the status quo.

There is a much better approach. And that is to send him a letter - forthright and respectful, no beating around the bush - telling him what is missing in your marriage and what it will take to turn this around. In the next 3 months, give your marriage your everything. Then if he still won't get on board, you should separate. And the main reason you should separate is because a) you WILL FALL OUT OF LOVE and b) you are susceptible to an affair because he is not meeting your needs.
Either outcome will be ruinous to your marriage. Once you fall out of love it will be very difficult to to turn that around.

Please take the time and read this article all the way through. This woman completely changed her marriage by following Dr Harley's steps: When to Call It Quits - Part 1

I'm not saying I would never leave. I'm saying that, at this time, I'm not at the point where that is under consideration. Back when my husband broke his promise I was considering the future of the relationship and he knew it. I'm not at that place anymore but I have made it clear that I don't think I could overcome a repeat of that sort of thing again so it better not happen. I'm quite frank about my expectations these days as a result. A talk/conversation is on the cards. I'm just need to clarify in my mind what the needs to be when I have finished reading and done some reflection.

I have seen some improvements I haven't seen before in the past year. I think he finds it difficult to change patterns of behavior but is trying and making good steps. A year ago he would have made a commitment to work on the day he knows I need him to be home in the evenings if work called. When he did this, I told him that this communicated to me that my commitments, and his commitment to me, didn't matter to him. He's fiercely guarded that time slot ever since. So there is hope, one step at a time. Leaving would only happen if I had no hope and there was no sign there was any.

Are you interested in turning this around? Did you read the article I posted?

Yes, I've read it and I relate very much to the couple. I am working on it. I'll finish reading then I think it is time to make a statement about what happens going forward and working plan A. Part of the deal needs to be him communicating his needs too.

I think a challenge we face is that, even if there isn't the depth of intimacy I'd like, we are very good friends and have many recreational activities we like doing together and wouldn't want to give up. We do have a good foundation to build on. If there was a situation that was a deal breaker for me, it would be plan B immediately.

We are not asking you to find a deal breaker, but to take steps to save your marriage by turning it around. The goal here is not to be "good friends," but to have a marriage. I don't understand how you can even characterize this as "friendship" since you say he won't talk to you. Do you know any friendships that survive no communication?

Our goal is to save your marriage. The way your marriage is going, it won't likely last.

There shouldn't be any bad at all. If you have a willing negotiation partner he will exclude anything that makes you unhappy. If you have a spouse who does include any bad things in the marriage at all you are simply going to get steadily more unhappy as time goes on. Just because you're not there yet doesn't mean it isn't a certainty.

Enduring anything bad in the marriage at all is a bad marital habit.



I do wonder how far this low standard to accept any crumbs of hope is communicated in your attitude. Sounds like he can encourage you for a bit and that's enough? See, setting your standard at a non intimate level is only going to get you non intimacy. If you communicate that things are good enough to keep you - he'll take you at your word.

I wonder why you think it's so dreadful to talk about leaving unless the relationship is up to scratch. Why would you wait until your lovebank is dry to issue such an important warning? Do you think it is somehow wrong to imply you don't have unconditional love?

Wouldn't you rather have the warning than a surprise?

Exactly

What would those deal breakers be? It sounds like conversation is one of your top emotional needs and he isn't even making the effort to meet that need.

Even then you won't tell him, but let's cross that bridge when it comes to that. First you need to follow Melody's direction and write the letter of your firm marital expectations.

If you write the letter he has that to reference to know whether he is doing everything right. His reward will be when you don't have to go through those peaks and valleys of emotion. You are taking the responsibility for his actions when you say you have to tell him he needs to be more consistent. He is being lazy at meeting your needs. I'll bet his boss at work doesn't tell him he is doing a good job at showing up for work on time he just needs to be more consistently on time. He's lazy because he knows you won't leave. You have to be true to yourself and honest. If he is not meeting the needs you state in your letter 100% of the time without reminders and accolades for simply abiding by them by the end of three months, it's time to separate. That's not to say after an enjoyable date you can't talk about how much fun you had on the date. You just can't say I appreciate how much more consistently you've been talking to me. Then he'll mark it off his to do list and think well she said I was doing it so I don't have to work at it anymore.

There is a bit of a pattern of him making an effort for a while and then falling back into old habits. This is working less for him now because I don't trust it to last anymore. I do need to communicate to him that he needs to sustain it. I see a good opportunity coming in about a week to lay it out. He's on holiday for the next week so I know things will be good. What I need to communicate is that when he returns to the regular routine, it needs to continue for the sake of building a strong marriage and detail what that looks like. Part of it has to be that he will communicate his needs and wants.



I don't think I have completely avoided the suggestion that I have other options (a while ago. The whole broken promise thing.). When I was more direct, a few years ago, what I could gather is that he seemed to feel helpless to make things better. That only made me more frustrated because I wanted to see him fight for our marriage. I see a lot of learned behaviors in how he handles conflict (in all relationships) that involve avoiding communicating. As a communicator, stonewalling really frustrates me.

I think part of what is happening at the moment is that I have seen recent changes. They have been slow in coming but they are coming. Things like, fiercely guarding his evening he needs to be here to accommodate my work. That's a big step for him and I can see that is not temporary. So he has been making efforts, one step at a time. He has taken the initiative to set up some dates this year himself and organized everything (previously it was my job to do all that). I can see him working on the communication since I first posted. That's easy when on holiday of course.I just need to tell him it is imperative to our marriage that it lasts. I will do that and soon and make sure it is clear as day.

skd - an example of a deal breaker for me would be infidelity. You're probably right about him seeing communication as something on his to do list. It needs to become a lifestyle. I might borrow your illustration about the boss.

The letter is coming soon. The clearest letter I have ever given him. I'm also trying to reflect on myself and what changes I might need to make so I can acknowledge those.

I gave him the letter and we had a discussion in which I couldn't be any clearer.

What it comes to now is he is going to have to take some initiatives himself if there is going to be any improvement. Meanwhile, I need to start building my external support systems and am making plans for that.

Thank you for your help and time. We'll see what happens now.

Obviously it made him feel bad that I wasn't completely happy. Usually that makes me feel very guilty for having complained. I'm trying to tell myself it's not unfair if he feels bad since I have had to feel that way. This is the biggest benefit of your support for me. It's ok to complain nicely.

This is a very good realization. Your complaint is very much like an NSF notice from the bank. It might not be fun getting it, but the alternative is WORSE. NOT COMPLAINING will wreck your marriage just as not receiving NSF notices from the bank will destroy your finances.

Your guilt is very inappropriate.

What is the MB perspective on a situation such as this: Over the years the wife has provided an attentive listening ear to the husband whenever needed. The husband has never done the same and this is a particular point of hurt for the wife. The husband, being aware of this issue, again needs a listening ear in an area he has actively rejected supporting his wife in when she needed the same. The wife feels she cannot give to the husband in the same way she has before until he steps up. What should the wife do in this situation according to MB?

The MB way is that you shouldn't meet his needs in a way that makes you unhappy. And you shouldn't meet his needs when he won't reciprocate. However, you are in a short Plan A essentially, so you should follow the guidelines in the article When to Call it Quits.

You are exhibiting one of the main reasons that spouses should not sacrifice and should not meet needs unreciprocated. [outside of Plan A] People who sacrifice tend to keep score and say things like you have said here: I have been doing this forever and he won't do it for me. That is setting the stage for deep resentment.

In short, you should do it for a very short time until you can separate. Otherwise, you should stop making sacrifices.

That was fast :-) I told him to talk to his workplace counselor if he needed it. I just couldn't do it.

I believe marriage is 'I am there for you and you are there for me'. For 18 years I didn't really need anything much then a couple of things happened in a few years where I really needed support and I've come to see that it's all one sided. I don't think it's that he doesn't want to be there. I really think he doesn't know how to do that. Can I plan A effectively when, in this area, I can't give anymore?

I am confused. Aren't you following the guidelines outlined in When to Call it quits? Giving him the cold shoulder is certainly not a MB plan and will make this situation worse, not better. You said you gave him the letter so I thought you were following that plan. Is that not the plan?

He was given the letter. We had a talk after. In the middle of this talk about us he suddenly remembered something he needed to remember for work and picked up his phone and wrote himself an email about work. Then returned to the conversation wanting me to counsel him about something unrelated to the topic and in that moment I couldn't do it. I told him that I'm sorry but I don't have the energy to give support on that at the moment and suggested he talk to his workplace counselor about it. How can I plan A when the energy to give more than I am getting isn't there?

So, once you give him the letter, what is the next step?