Don't expect much to change here. You enable and reward your H's bad behavior, time and again.

As you have already been advised, you should stay far away from this man until he demonstrates that he is SERIOUS and exhibits no lovebusting behavior in your exchanges for a good period of time. More like a year.

If you are serious about saving this M, you should follow Dr Harley's plan - not Plan Alien Girl. How well has that worked for you?

okay, okay, okay. I got it. One year. I honestly don't think we'll make it that long.

He got extremely upset at me yesterday. I really had hoped this last progress he was showing was the one, until I exposed, and he went drastically to the negative side. Then, I got a really ugly e-mail stating how selfish I was talking with his father without considering his feelings, and considering his father's feelings, and if I want to set the rules, its done, because I am forcing it, I am manipulating everything. He says this is black mailing: He either does marriage builders or we are done.

After reading this I really don't want to go home.

Sugarcane, I don't really know how you know who I am, because I never posted I was staying at my sister's house until you posted that, but that means you know our past history. Before leaving I installed a spyware on his cellphone. After exposure he started googling his ex-girlfriend and also the first girl he liked when he was 14. At the end, he seemed to have decided not to initiate contact with either of them.

Then he started searching in google "marriage builders gone wrong", "marriage builders complaints", "exposure made my marriage worse", as if he would actually find an anti-marriage builders forum out there.

He made a zombie call this morning to ask how the girls were doing. I sense not a good tone.

I don't want to be as chatty as I was before, but I feel like the world ended, as I can predict that telling him I am not returning home won't be a good scene.

1) Did I do wrong by telling his father some past incidents when he had told me already he was going to change?

2) He asked me for evidence that Dr. Harley actually advises exposure on past events that he is already changing.

You wrote this:

He posted about this, too.

X2. This sarcasm about you being the boss is the attitude you need to separate from. Every time you get this attitude you need to say you're unhappy with it, leave him and go home. He has to learn that he has to be pleasant if he expects you to agree to being in his company.

The problem is you both view marriage as jail, where there's no escape and abuse can be flung with no comeback.

Making it clear you can leave any time - happily - for as long as it takes, redresses that.

Perhaps I am speaking out of turn, as i am still getting things straight in my head myself... I am discovering that living in a manipulative marriage has destroyed what I deem as self worth. The other day I was watching a video by Dr. Harley and he was explaining that your husband should think of being married to you as a "privelege". That every day we need to remind ourselves of that in our marriage. I had to ask myself do we have those thoughts. Do I feel that way and is my husband treating me that way? Does he think being married me is a privelege or does he treat me like his possession that he can say and do to me whatsoever he wants, while he treats others with respect and kindness. Aliengirl, take a hard look at your marriage and yourself. Ask yourself if you want to live this way for the next 20 years. For me that thought is absolutely overwhelming. I have come to realize in the last week I do not. I have 4 kids involved in this marriage and this is not healthly for them. Do I want my son to grow up thinking this is how to treat his wife? Or my daughter to think that this is how a man should treat her! Absolutely not. Take a stand and do it now! Realize that you are worth more then how you are being treated. I can relate to your posts and have heard words so similiar. You are the one that is being manipulated by a very practiced manipulator. Seek help for yourself, find a place of safety to heal your own wounds. It is time to think of yourself. My plan is to find that safe place where I can heal in a safe environment where I am no longer abused. You are worth it. It's time to think about you. And in the process you will see by his response over time if you are worth anything to him at all. If you are he will seek help if he truly desires this marriage and you. You are absolutley worth it!

So true! Thank you for this advice! It's amazing to know that we can do this and we do have power over this situation. Aliengirl it really is a freeing feeling all in itself just to know you have a place of safety. I haven't physically moved into mine yet as I have to wait until the 1st, but just knowing that it is there is peaceful all in itself. Do it, please. And I am finding there is help on this forum and encouragement. You are not alone!

1. No, you did not do anything wrong. Why would it be wrong to tell his father about his angry outbursts?

2. Your husband is asking you for evidence of Dr. Harley's methods because he is not willing to change his behavior.

These are not the words or actions of a man who is serious. If markos had said this things or acted this way when we were separated, I would have never allowed him home. If he were serious, he would be welcoming accountability. He certainly wouldn't be googling girls!!!

Do not go home.

I will redress that.

I hate it when he is revengeful, impatient, stressed, angry or irritated. But I love it when he is nice. Since he is working on that issue, I feel we made another step. I also feel I need to work on lifting his self esteem with more appreciation and highlighting all his positives.

This weekend he surprised me by showing up over at my sister's and we had a great weekend together, and I miss home.

I will separate without the actual "separation". If the purpose of "separation" is to keep him motivated to do anger management and for my "safety", I will find ways to keep him motivated, and I don't feel unsafe with him at all. I am aware he will have many mistakes along the way as he completes anger management, but also I will be helping him along the progress. I just have to keep in mind not to "reward" any bad behavior and COMMUNICATE.

I want to thank all that freely gave time to post advise now and before. I've learned plenty more. I will keep in mind to set bar standards high and not for either of us to view our marriage as jail.

You are still rewarding his words, irrelevant of his deeds.

If I tell you I will give you a million dollars and each time I do, I don't follow through, you would not get your hopes up without credible proof that I would follow through this time. If you buy a car, you would want to have a contract. But marriage is more important than a car.
Why are you allowing your husband to get you back with no action aside from flapping his wings a bit?

Whatever that means

I don't think you are the least bit serious about holding your WH to any standards but it's your life. That your WH thinks you are stupid and gullible (and tells people this) says a lot about the type of man you are married to. Good luck to you. You will need it.

Happyheart, he actually took in what you posted to him, so that is how I know, because he applied it. He did get irritated at a moment over a question I asked. He stood up and left, I didn't understand, then returned a few minutes after and came back to answer. Later told me that the question actually irritated him because he felt I wanted to control him but then remembered to calm down and realized it was not so. So, it is not just words this time. He applied relaxation. Its a step. We've made a really bad habit out of this, and we have to undo it.
I don't want to punish him either and leave him alone in practice, I was part of the reason of the habit, plus, I feel I need him, and I feel he needs me.

Your original post.

Here you are, still, suggesting a "pseudo separation" that is no different to your original complaint.

If neither of you is willing to make serious changes, how can these folks help you? Neither of you is interested in actually changing behavior, it is just throwning a tantrum until one of you gives in. That isn't separation, is it?

That's like a teenager who cries "you hate me" and hides in their room until mom feels guilty.

Quit leaving and coming back and calling it "separation."

Dr. Harley has plans that work.

Fine. Separation it is, but now new problem is that we didn't split in good terms.

I don't feel I can talk to him, because he'll start verbally putting me down, and because he is always right in his mind and won't listen to what I am feeling. I have shut down.

Such a deep sadness, I thought we were recovering. I do believe husband has feelings for me as I do for him, but there are times he simply can't control his temper. I am emotionally a mess.

Do I just wait this out and hope we miraculously recover our marriage? What do I do during this time?

Are you now separated?

Depends how you define separation.


Husband first came up with a document that we stay married and next AO he leaves, yesterday he came up with another document separating by time... I get the house from time x to time y and he gets house from time y to time z and we don't see each other during the y time exchange time, and we sleep in separate rooms and we each have scheduled times to play with the babies (for me still babies).
I signed the first one, then I signed the second one and if he comes up with a third one, I'll sign in. I don't feel like arguing at all. I don't know if I have given up, but fine, I actually haven't seen him at all since I signed the paper.

AlienGirl, you need to get out of there. Take your babies and get out of that house. Separate for real this time. Living in the same house with him is only going to prolong your pain.

You will be amazed how different you will feel.