I agree that the poly will be a key sign of whether or not this will be a false recovery. Lots of times they say 'OK! Bring it on!' Initially. Then as it draws near they get all weird that you are 'still on that' -'Wasn't my willingness to do it enough?'

Uh huh.

Stand firm on it and if he does see that he needs to do it, he will probably dump a lot of information on you last minute once he sees he has to.

The poly thread would be good for you to read

Here
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2473858

Oh I'm totally getting the polygraph set up today! Shopping around will just include calling like 3 places and just setting up an appmt. I'll have it done before lunch. Maybe I can get an appmt for tomorrow!

Everything possible is getting done today.

Right now that includes (not ordered by priority, ALL of these will get done today):

-mail letter to OW
-get Surviving an Affair
-talk to his friend's parents in whose home the sex took place
-install keylogger
-set up polygraph
-get alternate phone set up (on phone plan)
-send him to get tested for stds
-expose the affair from last June to friends and family
-end communications between him and the people we discussed (female friends and any guys who betrayed our marriage)


I am willing to watch dog him. I know it is a commitment and it stinks it has to be a very present part of our lives from this point forward. But he has an obvious weakness here. He knows it and I know it now. I will do what I got to do. And I won't do any of this half-way or cut him slack.

I would put this towards the top of the list you posted to ensure it gets done TODAY.

Expect back pedaling and gaslighting, him trying to find SOME way to delay this. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. My WxH (after swearing he would take a poly, even here on this forum) exclaimed: "I have some integrity!"

Be prepared for any excuse he may throw at you: "We can't afford this right now!!"

Stand your ground and just go ahead and make the appointment.

Appointment made. Tomorrow at noon.
Let's do this thing.

I will discuss questions with you guys later on today. I am going to start plowing through the rest of my list.

If you are going to a polygraph tomorrow at noon, then you need to hustle up and give him a list of all your questions TONIGHT so he will have time to answer them before the test. Hand him a list of ALL of your questions tonight and tell him you need the answers tonight. You will then review his answers and decide TOMORROW just before the test which questions to ask. The tester will only ask 2-3 questions.

Ok, I know it's late but the questions I've come up with and gotten his answers for are: (his answers in parentheses)

1. Are you deliberately concealing information about any other relationship you have had with anyone?
(No)

2. Do you view pornography?
(No)

3. Have you kissed any women other than myself, OW1 and OW2 during our marriage?
(No)

4. Have you had sex with anyone other than me, OW1 and OW2 since the beginning of our marriage?
(No)

5. Are you emotionally intimate with any women other than me?
(No)

6. Are you truly out of contact with OW?
(Yes)

7. Do you use the internet in any way for sexual gratification?
(No)

8. Do you talk to other women with intentions of sexual gratification?
(No)



I will choose among those. I think I am leaning towards #1, #6 and #7.

I would stay away from #5 because it is very subjective.

I would make sure to have the polygrapher define 'out of contact' as that can also be subjective.

The key is to ask questions that are cut and dry/yes and no, so there is no room for "I didn't understand the question and that's why I failed." Your polygraph examiner should be able to help you choose or construct questions that will get the answers you want while being cut and dry.

Kissing his daughter, mother etc will negate #3

How many questions will be asked?

I would go with (and tweek) #2, #4, and #6.

2- Have you viewed any pornography in the last two years? (Adjust to when you know he supposed stopped looking at it and add a reasonable cushion)

4- Have you had sexual contact of any kind with a woman other than myself, OW1 and OW since the beginning of our marriage? (The poly guy should explain to him what constitutes sexual contact - kissing, petting, oral, etc. so that it is clear)

6- Have you been in contact of any kind with OW2 since April X, 2015 (Insert last day he has admitted to then add a day)

Maybes (Even if these aren't asked on the poly, I would still give him these):

Have you had sexual contact of any kind with a fellow classmate while attending school? (If he has always gone to the tech school or college you can add the name..."while attending school at ABC college". Or if he has gone to more than one school you can use a timeframe so it is clear we are taking about his recent years of study and not high school.)

Have you had sexual contact with any woman other than myself in your marital house?

Agree with blackraven!

Be prepared for him to fail. I am not saying he is going to, maybe he will and maybe he won't. Just think about how you want to proceed if he does fail, so you are not blindsided and easy to gaslight.

Not that you seem like a girl who is easy to gaslight

I don't think you are either

Thank you Black Raven!
I just printed off your questions.

He is nervous. I'm nervous too.
Should he fail, I think I would go Plan B until he is ready to be honest or get divorced. Perhaps I would just want a divorce at that point. There is watchdogging, which I don't mind doing, but then there is just beating your head against a pole.

If we were to come back together after a fail, I think we'd have to do ANOTHER poly after that.

I don't think he is going to fail.
But, we'll find out shortly!

So he failed the test.

The main questions the examiner focused in on were:

"have you been sexual with anyone other than wife, OW1, and OW2 since the beginning of your marriage"

and

"did you fool around with anyone during the month your wife was away last helping family last summer"

(in some such words)

He showed strange activity for each instance of the question.
Husband was stunned and confused that he failed. I know what he says, I shouldn't believe.

I dunno. I'm so exhausted.
Truths that did come out today:

-He did look at porn during the month I was away over the summer. So there is a chance that is what led him to fail that question. And he has some friends that send him some porn randomly during online video gaming time.

-He went to a strip club with that SAME DARN FRIEND (the cousin of OW2) during that trip to Seattle last June. Man that friend seems to be connected to all betrayals.


Would those count towards the failing of the questions? I have no idea. Husband doesn't think they would count towards the questions because he wasn't thinking about them during the test. But he says he has no idea why he failed them. So, I appreciate him not clinging to things as excuses for why he failed but... the fact is still that he failed it.
He says that there has absolutely been no one else. No sex, no sexting, no kisses, no online conversations, no touching, no intimate sexual conversations. No anything that I can think to ask.

He says he will do whatever EPs to prove to me that he is committed and not fooling around on me. He offered to send me a picture of where he is every hour. I told him ok, go ahead and do that. Why not.

I feel like all of you are going to yell at me to leave him.

And maybe it is stupid but I just feel like he is telling the truth. I know that is just a feeling and to not rely on that. Maybe I just need a good night's sleep to let stuff sink in.

The examiner did stress that it may have simply been too soon to do the test after the week that we have had. He said we could come back in 4-5 weeks for another one. Is this guy just giving us a sales pitch?

Ugh.

It's not lost on me that those truths about the porn and strip clubs didn't come out earlier. So it is entirely possible there are more lies in there... and I know his word has zero value but he is swearing up and down there is nothing else.
I'm not even sure what he has to gain by lying at this point, because I keep telling him I would work with him. That I just wanted to start from a place of total truth.

I don't have the time to post so I'm going to copy a post I made a long time ago to a BS who did not want to believe the WS could still be lying...

Originally Posted By: scrambledegg
"A lot of this is complicated. I don't think this is a typical A - plan A and plan B don't fit because there is no emotional attachment. Some of you may want to slap me upside the head, but I BELIEVE my WW when she tells me this because I know our history and I know her. So much has happened in the past 24 hours, sometimes it seems overwhelming."


Originally Posted By: black_raven
se,

When I read comments like this I cringe. While the details of As vary the basic elements are very typical. I don't know what you mean by complicated. You sound like you have some BS fog and most (if not all) here have had some level of experiencing that only to be slapped in face by reality (usually repeatedly.) Waywards will swear on their children's head, their mother's grave, the Bible, anything that you would think a person would consider sacred and all the while be lying their butts off without flinching. No one here wants to see you setting yourself up to feel those slaps harder than they would be otherwise.

Your desire to believe your wife is understandable. Who wants to think that after all the garbage they have already learned that there's more or that the WS is still hiding things? I couldn't even wrap my mind around how my FWH could STILL be lying or withholding info because I simply didn't understand how 'f'ed up that sort of thinking was. You are expecting your WW to have the same mindset as you and she doesn't.

As you said, you are feeling overwhelmed. You WANT to believe this is as bad as it gets. BTDT. Sorry but I don't believe that ANY wayward spills ALL this early on and I had a very remorseful FWH too. You have to entirely rely on WW's word at this moment and she is a proven liar. I don't mean to sound harsh, but that is the plain truth. There's no OMW/GF to verify info with. You are taking WW's word for everything. Just be careful.
____________________________________

You had a poly, SN. He failed.

SN,

I'm very sorry to hear that your husband failed the test.

Your husband was fully aware that he should have told you of the porn and the strip clubs beforehand. Spouses that fail the test will start throwing crumbs in hopes that you think this is everything and back off. Obviously he did not mean to be truthful with you before the test.

It is very concerning that the "crumbs" he is throwing you consist not only of porn, but going to strip clubs.

He is either dumb, thinking he could get away with a bit of porn and strip without you knowing, OR he is hiding something bigger.
Have you delved into his computer and e-mail history? If he is into swinging it is likely that he has researched or tried out that kind of thing or paid sex and the like.

There are many mor male than female swingers and for that reason, single man are less welcome there. He may have caused you to have the threesome. As was said before, you would have been the ticket/price to get action with other women.

Also, your husband strikes me as impulsive.
Although many fogged out wayward spouses dive deeply into affairs, going from "acquaintances" to "taking my child away from its mother and living happily ever after with 18-year-old affair partner in Dubay" is rather extreme, even for a wayward.

There is nothing wrong with being spontaneous, but to live a good life, there has got to be some consistency. Does he have problems with impulse control in general in other areas of his life? Gambling, videogaming to the max, spending money etc?

Consistency is important, because even if you follow marriage builders, there can always be a downtime in your life. Illness and the like can make the meeting of some of the needs impossible. The other spouse then, has to make extra efforts to consistently avoid others from making deposits during times of duress. To be married to a person who follows his heart/feelings on a whim, is exhausting to say the least.

Your husband can learn to change his habits if he wants to and works the MB plan consistently in the future. But I presume that this is an aspect that you have to be careful with in the future.

I was wondering to myself....why hasn't she posted back that he is resisting the poly? Why hasn't she posted back to some trickle truth that has come out now that he knows he is taking the poly and will fail?

I see now.

Not only did he know that he would fail, but he KNEW that he would be able to get you to go along with a failed test.

It's really that simple.

It's not that he "forgot" to tell you two truths (crumbs) before the test and inexplicably remembered them AFTER the test.

He's playing you. And he knows that he can.

Yes, he is hiding something bigger. There is no other explanation for why he would be playing this game with her.

SilentNight,

What this signals to me is that your WH is not willing to give up his SSL and his IB.

He has no intention of following through on EPs. He knows that he will be able to get you to back down and soften up these restrictions.

He knows it.