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typicalman, are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show, daily? Have you listened today?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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]I think tracking her down and going there might be something you should speak to your attorney about. They don't have to let you see your children and the second you show up there demanding it they will call the police and have you restrained and removed. The cops will insist you stay away, wife will feign fear and your behavior would be documented and quite likely perceived as stalking and controlling versus devastated and alienated but in control. You have to know that's the argument they are likely to use against you should this come down to a custody battle so whatever you do you want to try to avoid being perceived as ANGRY, CONTROLLING, ABUSIVE. Even non stop calling could be PERCEIVED as bad...which is why I suggested carefully worded emails earlier.

But I'm not telling you what to do. If you fear for the safety of your children in her custody traveling and have any notion that she's gonna do something more than just go away and try to punish you, then GO. I know Jedi tracked down his wife and kids and had a confrontation in some other state. Cops were involved there to but I think he had an order with him. This isn't necessarily a time to be conflict avoiding if your children's safety and lives are at stake but if you're secure in the thought/belief that the kids are safe and being fed and taken care of with her then you probably need to be strategic about this.

A poster named GoodFather, I think, was removed from his home and had a restraiining order on him for a month or so before the court would hear his case. He sat in a hotel stewing but remained strategic and ultimately won full primary custody of his kids. Sometimes you have to wait. Your kids are residents of your state and the law SHOULD make her bring them back one way or another.

In most states...this isn't parental kidnapping but it will be frowned up by the courts. Her attempts to "conceal" the children from you is offensive to the courts and if you had an order, would be illegal. Now...it's indicative of a mother who can't be trusted with primary custody of the children should you two end up divorced.


IF you file for divorce....can you get immediate standard orders requiring her to provide access to the children????


Here's some research I copied:


Quote
What Constitutes Parental Kidnapping?
Even though many states do not have a penal code entitled �Parental Kidnapping,� most have structured their general kidnapping laws to provide for the same type of offense. Whether or not the taking of a child by a parent will constitute parental kidnapping is determined by three main factors, including (1) the legal status of the offending parent, (2) the existence of any court orders regarding custody, and (3) the intent of the offending parent.

Until an order is entered which limits one parent's rights or access to child, both parents have equal rights and access to a child. If a divorce or child custody suit has not been filed, then either parent can take their child and exercise custody over them. If one parent decides to take a child out of school early for an extended weekend trip, they can because there is no order limiting their right to do so. This may be annoying to the other parent, but it is not parental kidnapping. The important caveat, though, is that the person taking the child must actually be the parent of the child.

When it comes to parental rights, it is not enough that someone has functioned as the parent. For example, if a man lives with a woman and her child for eight years and as far as the child knows and believes, the man is his father, the function of parenthood will not grant the man the same rights as a biological parent. If he wants the same access and status as a parent, he must petition a family court and obtain those rights. A parent with legal custody of their child pursuant to a court order cannot usually be charged with parental kidnapping. However, a parent who violates a custody order and then snatches or conceals a child can potentially be charged with parental kidnapping.

Parental Kidnapping Laws by State
Parental kidnapping laws vary by state, but generally involve a defendant abducting a person/child by holding them in a place where they are not likely to be found. Some parents are surprised to learn that their state does not require the use of force or a weapon to support the criminal charge of parental kidnapping. The unlawful retention of the child is enough to support a charge of parental kidnapping.

Many state parental kidnapping laws are general kidnapping rules, but some will more specifically tailor their kidnapping laws to address parental kidnapping. Michigan kidnapping laws, for example, provide that a parent cannot keep a child more than 24 hours with the intent to conceal them. If your state does not have a more �tailored� statute, it will most likely include exceptions or affirmative defensives for those situations where a defendant �kidnaps� their own child. Even though Michigan prohibits a parent from keeping a child for longer than 24 hours, it does include a defense for the parent attempting to protect their child from an actual threat.

Texas has a similar requirement that the parent�s sole intent was to assume lawful control of the child. The focus of this �lawful custody� defense is on the offending parent�s intent. If a parent kidnaps their child to punish or terrorize their ex-spouse and to also try to get lawful custody, the terrorizing intent will disqualify the parent from successfully proving their lawful custody defense.

Lawful Custody Defense and Parental Kidnapping
The �lawful custody� defense is frequently used to defeat parental kidnapping charges. However, keep in mind that this defense may not work on other charges or sanctions. If a custody order was in place, the offending parent could be charged with a lesser charge called �interference with child custody.� If the family law court has concerns that you were snatching, but not kidnapping, the family law court could also sanction you with contempt orders and require you to pay the other parent�s attorney fees incurred in getting the child back.

Getting Help
Custody battles are frustrating. They are especially difficult for parents who try to do the right thing, and extremely distressing for the children who get pulled in different directions. Before you resort to a game of tug-of-war, consult with a family and criminal law attorney to make sure that you are not tugging your way into a parental kidnapping charge.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Originally Posted by typicalman
yes, we are filed, and a standing order was filed. Not until the hearing date for the standing order can we get the order to bring the kids back which is > 3 weeks away. I'll be looking for any angle to get them back sooner.

TM, the last time this happened on the forum was around 2004-2005. A WW absconded with the children a few weeks before Christmas. An emergency court hearing was held and the judge was so furious at the wife for taking the kids that he made her go to their home, pack her clothes and move out. And leave the kids with the husband! He got full custody of the kids. Your wife is making serious mistakes by stealing the kids. She is just showing herself to be a very unstable person.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by markos
typicalman, are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show, daily? Have you listened today?
listening now

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Is this marriage over or can I get my wife back? I love her so much and it's hard for me to know she is going through this. I have not heard from them for days now and there doesn't seem much I can do.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
Is this marriage over or can I get my wife back? I love her so much and it's hard for me to know she is going through this. I have not heard from them for days now and there doesn't seem much I can do.

What do you mean?
Is she being tortured or imprisoned? What is she going through?
I thought she left the state with the kids.
Focus on her actions and not what you think her feelings are.

Has your attorney filed in court?

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Originally Posted by typicalman
My wife saw an attorney,

I am doing everything my attorney has advised to get my children (and hopefully my wife too) returned safely.

Notice how much little info is posted when the unimportant filler was removed. When being evasive with us limits our ability to advise as well as lower the quality of the advice that gets offered.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
I will try to give the best responses that I can. Trust me... I am concerned for my kids and I love them. I am concerned for my wife and I love her. I care for my wife deeply and I want her to get through this and I'd love nothing more than to give her a big hug right now and hear her voice. Make no mistake, I have a VERY level head. I have concern, but not panic. I fully expected her to be upset, but I underestimated her carelessness with our children. Under no circumstances did I think she would drag them into this in this way.. I am shocked by that. Everything suggested here I have done except go to the police. No one locally has indicated that would do any good and from a legal standpoint it seems that she has lots of liberty here until the court has taken action. Unfortunately, it sounds like that is going to take a while. My little boy got pulled out of school, so I will be taking every possible angle to get him back in class. I want what is best for my wife but I understand that her decisions are going to be hers to live with. I am also starting to take steps to make sure that when they return, my wife will have a safe loving support network so returning to her family or the other man will not be needed. I have all the contact information for her family however, they are useless. Her family supports her affair or are simply in denial because a physical part cannot be proven. They are extremely resentful of me for moving my wife far away and giving her a good life. It seems that they have most likely been part of her escape plan. I can't judge if they are good or bad people since they could be simply gaslighted by my wife just as I have been. I know that the marriages in her family certainly don't follow the MD principles in any shape or form, so they also don't seem to understand what a healthy marriage is supposed to entail


Paragraphs increases legibility.

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Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by typicalman
My wife saw an attorney,

I am doing everything my attorney has advised to get my children (and hopefully my wife too) returned safely.

Notice how much little info is posted when the unimportant filler was removed. When being evasive with us limits our ability to advise as well as lower the quality of the advice that gets offered.

Look, I am not trying to be evasive. I went to an attorney and signed whatever I needed to to try to get my kids & wife back here. #1 Divorce petition (I don't want a divorce, but I had to file it in order to get the process going to get the kids back.. without that being filed, she can do whatever she wants) #2 is temporary orders to get the kids back here and keep them here until this can be sorted out. I sounds like it will take several weeks before any of this can take effect and we don't even know exactly where they are.

She has stopped communication. She isn't responding to any texts or calls. I am unable to get access to or talk to my kids.

I have also gone to our Church... no matter what is filed, the church's view is that we are still married. I am still married, so I still love my wife. I still care for her deeply. I still feel a huge hole in my heart for whatever she is going through. My purpose in life has been to be her protector and my kids protector...so I am lost now. I want to know that they are OK...

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http://travel.state.gov/content/chi...ing/passport-issuance-alert-program.html

sir hang in there.
Is there any chance she would leave the country?
if so you can block the kids passports at the website above.


Last edited by Jedi_Knight; 04/30/15 07:08 AM.
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no.. she will not. It is clear that she is going to be near her family & the OM. I would expect that given the exposure, she will not be contacting the OM though... I would not if I were her... otherwise her support network will fall apart given that she has denied everything. It's probably about 3 days worth of driving to get there. My first worry is about their emotional state... the kids must be so confused. If my wife is not thinking soundly (which is obvious), that could lead to physical danger. She can be reckless behind the wheel when she is emotional. I have always been there to protect her when she gets like this...

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I think the exposure probably did it's job or will do it's job on killing the relationship with the OM... I am just worried that she is so mad now that she will never come back and work on our marriage... which is all I ever wanted.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
no.. she will not. It is clear that she is going to be near her family & the OM. I would expect that given the exposure, she will not be contacting the OM though... I would not if I were her... otherwise her support network will fall apart given that she has denied everything. It's probably about 3 days worth of driving to get there. My first worry is about their emotional state... the kids must be so confused. If my wife is not thinking soundly (which is obvious), that could lead to physical danger. She can be reckless behind the wheel when she is emotional. I have always been there to protect her when she gets like this...

Has she behaved this way in the past?
Does she have mentAl health problems?

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Originally Posted by typicalman
I think the exposure probably did it's job or will do it's job on killing the relationship with the OM... I am just worried that she is so mad now that she will never come back and work on our marriage... which is all I ever wanted.

All waywards get upset about exposure.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
no.. she will not. It is clear that she is going to be near her family & the OM. I would expect that given the exposure, she will not be contacting the OM though... I would not if I were her... otherwise her support network will fall apart given that she has denied everything. It's probably about 3 days worth of driving to get there. My first worry is about their emotional state... the kids must be so confused. If my wife is not thinking soundly (which is obvious), that could lead to physical danger. She can be reckless behind the wheel when she is emotional. I have always been there to protect her when she gets like this...

Typicalman, have you asked your attorney about requesting an emergency custody order be issued until the hearing, wherein it is ordered that the children reside in the marital home?

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Based only on Your description of her emotional and mental instability, I would DEMAND that the attorney I hired, who is working FOR ME, file an immediate emergency motion to track down and return MY Children.

She is now filling up their heads with reasons why she HAD TO leave, out of fear fron Your Irrational Behavior.

You need to be the epitome of a calm, cool and collected husband and father.

Also, her POSOM lives where you suspect she is going.

Do you seriously believe she is not going to meet with him for emotional support?

If you think she is too worried about being found out, you are in SERIOUS DENIAL.

LTL

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Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
Based only on Your description of her emotional and mental instability, I would DEMAND that the attorney I hired, who is working FOR ME, file an immediate emergency motion to track down and return MY Children.


This. I fear you've got a lazy lawyer who wants you to roll over and not create work.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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no.. she will not. It is clear that she is going to be near her family & the OM.
I would go to that website Jedi posted and block their passports anyway. You have no idea what your WW and OM are planning.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

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Originally Posted by typicalman
.. I would not if I were her...


You are not wayward. We've seen them risk court martial to reconnect.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Tm, I know this is upsetting to you, but I have been thinking a lot about your situation and don't want you to lose hope. What is think is that there was a plan in place to leave you for the OM, but your exposure sped it up. A WS who is serious about recovery could not be run off by wild horses. Sure, they might get mad and stay away for a night. But they are usually back the next day. The fact that she has run like this tells me there was a plan here.

In that case, it just flushed the plan out sooner, rather than later so you can deal with it. She is in big trouble because if she goes to the OM, her family will be against her. Another benefit if that if she is with the OM, her affair will go into a free fall when reality wrecks the fantasy. You will get your kids back and she will be forced into some very hard choices.

I do agree with the others that you should get an emergency court order to get your kids back. Your kids need to be with a stable parent.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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