Yes I can stop mud slinging.


I understand and I am prepared to do it.


I have not had an angry outburst since Nov-14. I have felt anger, frustration and anxiety since then, but I have actively worked on not having an AO when I have these feelings. If my W disagrees, then I would like to understand how and I will fix it.


OK! I won't read her posts any more.

You are right, I do have a problem with disrespectful judgments. Dr Harley's comments this week back to me have helped me realize it. I am controlling in many different ways - actively and passive agressively - and I will work to stop it.

How?

How?

I am much more aware of my feelings and the physical cues associated with my feelings of anger at all levels, starting at anxiety/annoyance/frustration and how it escalates to rage. I take responsibility for making sure that I recognize my anger when it is low on the scale (such as frustration) and I stop myself. Since anger is cumulative, I know that if I don't stop myself early, then many small things will blow up into an all out raging outburst. After I stop myself, I calm down by using a relaxation technique such as deep breathing, muscle relaxation or getting some space like taking a walk. Once I am calm, then I know I'm better able to think rationally, evaluate the situation and decide what to do about it. Now that I understand how to evaluate, I'm able to determine if the trigger that is making me angry is real or perceived by me. At that point, then I have to decide how to respond.

My anger program is helping me understand the various ways I can respond and the pros/cons with each. Unfortunately, it is a skill that I'm still working on and my decisions sometimes aren't the best yet. For example, last week I learned about passive aggressive responses to situations and unfortunately, this is the response I quite often choose. In the past, I have also chosen the explosive anger response. These have been the defaults for me. My wife mentioned my passive aggressive way that I handled the situation when I was picking up my son for orchestra in the morning. She was absolutely right that it was PA and a way for me to punish them indirectly. Looking back on it, that was a horrible decision by me!

However, I now know that there are other options and I will continue to work on choosing the better options for the situation. There are the choices to let it go or directly confront the issue. In the past month, I have found myself letting go a lot more and it feels really good! I struggle to directly confront issues and have still found myself stuffing the problem or acting passive aggressive, though. The other day, I directly confronted the issue that made me upset with my W slapping my son. I think it was the right thing to do, but I know I need to remove the disrespect from my direct confrontations. Based on Dr Harley's comments, I know that I should not control my wife by suggesting actions for her and trying to straighten her out. Trying to straighten her out was the primary issue with that confrontation. She also says that I was talking in a whispery voice, which is not exactly true. I refuse to raise my voice with her anymore and choose to talk in a normal and calm tone. I will change the tone since it annoys her, but I will never raise my voice with her again.

I know it's a work in progress for me but I have a lot of knowledge and understanding now that I never had before. I know when I'm getting even the smallest bit angry and I'm able to stop, calm down and make rational decisions. With more practice, I know I'll get better with my decisions and confrontation skills.

Do you have any feedback about my approach?


Similar to above, I think it comes back to my decision and response to all situations. I have been very disrespectful in the past because I was allowing my anger to speak for me. I was not calm and I said stupid things!

Dr Harley also helped me realize this week just how disrespectful it is to try to control and straighten out my wife. It is not only disrespectful but also judgmental for me to decide her actions or feelings are wrong and try to change it. It never clicked before he told me, but now I know and will make every effort to stop controlling her actions. Instead, I choose to concentrate on my side of the street.

I think I also need to stop being passive aggressive because it is disrespectful. It is a choice that I make on how to respond to a situation. Instead of being passive aggressive, I will choose to let go or directly confront the issue.

I also need to work on understanding with empathy how my wife feels. It is something I'm working on every week in my anger management program and with my kids. I need to apply it to my marriage too. In the past, I have been completely not empathetic to anyone and especially with my wife. Since early November, I have worked on empathy with the kids and it has really improved my relationship with them. I think I chose to do it with them and not my wife because it is easier to practice something new with the kids. I know I need to apply it to my relationship with W as well.

I'm sure there is more I can be doing with POJA and respectful persuasion as markos mentioned too... Any recommendations on how to practice it, if my wife is unwilling? I don't know if she is or isn't willing, but I want to work on it. Thoughts?

Markos, I always appreciated your advice because you have been in a similar place as me. I hope I didn't drive you away for some reason! Will you weigh in?

I appreciate others as well but haven't heard from markos for a while.

MtnMan, are you the one that markos posted him "DJs to eliminate" checklist to? Do you mind reposting it or posting a link to it?

I'm a lot better at this than ever before, but my older daughter is down for the holidays and I find some of that old DJ-style thinking trying to sneak back! I reread the respectful persuasion article and the conversation article, and that's a huge help. I am just looking for a little more ammunition against the sneaky Djs.

How are you doing with all this? Sinking in I hope

NewEveryDay, no I don't believe markos shared a list of DJs to eliminate with me. I'd like to see it if you find it tho!

The DJ and AO elimination is sinking in! I have to remind myself daily not to commit love busters but I feel like my understanding is much better now. Still a lot of learning to be done!

Even today, I was passive aggressive about not wanting to cook breakfast for the family. I did it anyway and was acting put out later when w was working on something in the office and I didn't want to clean up the kitchen or get the kids lunch. I was being short with the kids too and acting overall grouchy. W told me I was love busting her so I stopped, calmed down, understood her perspective, apologized and started fresh. As I looked back on it, I was being passive aggressive and understand why my behavior was love busting. So, I recognize when I'm passive aggressive now and im working to stop it. It's a very bad habit that I've developing over many years and I know it has to change.

Good catch! I know for me, I tend to get overwhelmed/testy on the holidays, because that's when I notice what hasn't been done! So I made it a point to pay attention to my attitude and not let it turn. My house was not as nice as if I had more help, but the kids did help a lot and the days were awesome I can always clean up more another time!

I have been gone from this forum for a few months and I came tonight to read my whole thread again.

First and foremost, I want to publicly apologize to my W for the abuse I spewed on my thread. It is full of lies by omission, defensiveness, accusations, anger and complete disrespect. I am so sorry.

She encouraged me to come to the forums last year because she saw it as hope and a way to seek guidance for saving our marriage. It was an opportunnity for me to show her that I really cared by actively learning and particiapating. Instead, I used the forum to perpetuate my abuse of her by throwing her under the bus at every opportunity. I beat her down further by turning the forum against her. I took out my resentments from my past on her on a daily basis - in person and on this forum - and I deeply regret it. I was also never fully committed to working the program by utilizing the resources of this forum and looking back, it makes me sad to see my actions for what they are: abuse, neglect and a lack of care for my W.

I am sorry to my W and to all the people who participated on this thread for my lies, lack of effort, and complete disrespect. I wish I had made a different choice in September of last year and I sincerely apologize.

So are you still married?

Why did you post?

Yes I am still married but things continue to be difficult. W has given herself a deadline ********of 3 weeks - if I am still neglecting her and committing any love busters then she is going to file for divorce. It scares me.

I need help meeting her needs consistently and it has to happen NOW. Divorce is a bad option and I don't want my family to go through it.

I have made a lot of excuses as to why we aren't spending the 15+ hours of undivided attention as a couple, with no kids around. The primary excuse is child care since we live away from family and don't have consistent babysitters. It's a bad excuse and as a previous post mentioned, we could solve it with care.com, neighborhood teens, etc. My W also told me today that babysitting won't be a problem if I am making the right efforts to meet her needs and not be neglectful.

I also justify my neglect with my dedication to the family even though I know it's not UNDIVIDED attention with W. Family Commitment is one of her top 5 needs and my kids are important to me, so I will always be committed to my family. However, I think I need to create a better balance between family time and 1:1 time with my W. In fact, maybe the balance needs to be tipped far more to the 1:1 time with my W for now??

Does anybody have advice about the best way to actually plan out a week of 15+ hours? We probably need 20+ hours... I know there is a Time for Undivided Attention Worksheet on the MB website but I have frankly only filled it out once and didn't do it again. No blame or excuses, I just didn't follow through with it.

Any other ideas that really have WORKED for you?

Well.. yeah! Not seriously asking this are you? You need a minimum of 15 hours UA to MAINTAIN a healthy love. Those 15 hours meet the top four intimate needs of SF, IC, affection and RC.

FC is important to most mothers - but it is NOT an intimate need and does not create romantic love! So WHY have you been concentrating on needs that do not make her love you???!!!

She can divorce you and still count on your fine parenting. Just like she can hire a cleaner for DS and get a job for FS. Non intimate needs. Meeting her FC need is a secondary consideration to UA and the four intimate needs if you want to stay married.

And you're right, 15 won't get you back from the brink it should be more like 20-25.

Plan it in before you plan in anything else. I get the impression you have planned in time with the kids FIRST and then planned to spend time with her afterwards, and if you did not.. oh well she will have registered you trying...

Nope. Plan in time with her first before anything else. Dr H recommends Sunday afternoons plan out the week. Only after those dates are set in stone should you arrange to do anything else.

You're not being serious if you even ask this question.

The only thing that WORKS for anyone is if you actually do it - use the plan. Like a diet, the MB plan won't work if you don't actually use it.

You need to find 4 weekly events that you know your wife would enjoy, and make arrangements to GET THEM DONE. How hard can that be? Obviously, quite hard, if you can't even motivate yourself to fill out a sheet.

What does your wife enjoying doing for romantic recreation? What did you do when you were dating?

Do that - 4 times this week.

I have put FC ahead of UA time ever since the beginning of our relationship since we have our first child 1.5 years after we were married. That was 10.5 years ago. Indiegirl, you are right - it's time for a change in approach.

It's also time for action, rather than asking dumb question like "what other ideas have worked". Sugarcane, I see why you said that I just need to do it.

We had a unique situation when we first met and were dating since we met in Europe at work. So, we did things like:
- travelling around Europe - renting cars, going by train, flying - seeing new places and being tourists
- going out to dinner
- getting drinks together at bars (with and without work colleagues)
- going to dance clubs
- skiing / snowboarding (staying at the base of the lift in a hotel)
- walking around the city after dinner and talking
- going to museums and historic buildings (churches, etc)

I also spoke with Sandy at MB just now and she is going to coach me on a weekly basis (Tuesdays) to hold me accountable. We signed up for the accountability program and I need to use it.

All of those things, except the snowboarding, can be done within the next week, mostly for very little money (drinking - stay light - and clubbing) or free (churches, walking, going to a new place in the car).

If you could come up with all that in 5 minutes, why haven't you pulled your finger out and done them already?

Suggest four of them to your wife, right now, and offer to arrange the babysitting.

In the next month: get your kids to do an overnight, and go to a nice town and stay in a hotel.

Because I have been lazy and my priorities screwed up. I put work and kids ahead of my marriage, even though I knew better.

I think I have also been ignorant to what women really want... Sandy just confirmed it and my wife has been telling me for years - she wants me to woo her and to court her like we are dating. Looking back, W is right that I stopped courting her after we got married and even when we were still dating after we moved back to the States from Europe. I know this because she has told me many times that she questioned marrying me when we were living together before marriage.

Well, okay - let's move on.

Have you discussed dating with your wife? What four dates can you arrange for the next seven days?

Yes, I asked her "how would you feel about setting up some time tonight to discuss some date ideas that I have"? via text message.

She replied that she is not interested in discussing anything or going anywhere or wasting money on the marriage, until I have proven to her that I've spent time educating myself.

I asked her to clarify what she means by showing her, and she said that I can show her with words that I know something I didn't yesterday, but I have to decide how to show her. She also mentioned the Forum would have been a good way to show her, but I hated the idea before (she is right).

I am going to talk to her tonight about my priorities and that I know I have put family and job ahead of her. Today has also been a reminder that I dropped the ball on dating her for all the years of our marriage - and THAT is the neglect.

Offer to go for a drive to somewhere pretty in the next few days.

Ask respectfully, and don't try to educate her.

Does she work outside of the home? What hours?