Has she agreed to do the online course, or did you sign up unilaterally?

Mtn man she may be in withdrawal by this time and not motivated to even spend time with you. Try to lure her on those first few dates by suggesting things she wouldn't be able to pass up. Something linked to her hobbies and interests maybe. If there's a long drive included to boost your UA time so much the better.

Also, are you listening to the radio show, daily?

If you listened with your wife it would make great after show conversation.

No, she is a stay at home mom.

She agreed a couple months ago, but we stalled out on the Love Busters lessons because we have been through those worksheets twice already.

I am now working unilaterally with Sandy on the emotional needs plan and lessons, at my request to Sandy. Stopping the neglect is my top priority.

I did for many months and I stopped about a month ago. I have only listened a couple times in the last month and know I should get back to it.

I also need to say that I'm not minimizing Love Busters by going to EN with the accountability program. LB need to stop or it will ruin any efforts. However, I told Sandy that I need to make progress on EN as well, otherwise this is over. I have markos' words in my head "Divorce is not an option".

I know I have done a poor job of controlling my reactions in the past and I am now on anti-depressants, which helps. Even though yesterday was a tough day for me. W was complaining about neglect and I had it - reacted poorly by breaking down (crying and saying that I had spent so much time with her and the family last weekend that I just didn't understand) and getting mad at the situation. Yes, that's embarassing to admit.

For the last 3 weeks I was in complete control, so I know I can do it and how to do it. I apologized to her and told her that I wouldn't do it again - not sure the apology really mattered to her but I tried to makes amends quickly, rather than letting it fester like I always did in the past.

Could you explain this a bit more? What does "stalled out on the LB lessons" mean? What actually happened? Why couldn't you complete the lesson? Did one of you refuse to go any further, because you thought it was pointless? Was that your wife? Why did she think it was pointless?

Has she refused to finish the lesson ever since, or to move to a different one? Has she refused to complete the programme?

Meanwhile, does she know you plan to work alone with Sandy? Does she approve of that plan? Will she communicate with Sandy at all?

Is she prepared to give the marriage some time to improve, if she sees consistent work from you?

We stopped after lesson 2 because we have filled out the worksheets twice before and we have both read the Love Busters book at least once. Nobody is to blame. In fact, if anything I did not drive the lessons forward as much as I should have. At this point, we both know our LBs and how to stop them. From my perspective, yes it seems pointless to continue concentrating on how to remove LBs when I need to start making deposits ASAP. My harsh reactions have always been the problem and I have much better self control now than ever before.

We both stopped and she told me that she doesn't see the point in continuing when we both know that I am the problem. I agree - I have been the main source of our problems, which is why I reached out to Sandy to start working on ENs since I know how to control LB now.

I told her on text yesterday that I chatted with Sandy and how she is going to help coach me weekly to keep me on track. W response was that if she is important enough then I will educate myself and no one else can do this for me. She also said she wants a man who is strong and determined, and currently I am neither.

She does not refuse to talk to Sandy - in fact, she spoke with her a couple weeks ago. But, I doubt she is going to reach out to Sandy. It is up to me to make the effort.

I only know that I have *********3 weeks - her self-imposed deadline for filing or not.

Correction: 3 months (not weeks).

Has editing been disabled on posts?

I also need to add to the reasons for us not continuing the lessons. It is mainly due to me revealing a long secret to my wife about an addiction in March on top of continuing my love busters with just plain mean things that I was saying to her. I am now in a 12 step program for addiction recovery and I have been "sober" since March, but it has been a lot for her to handle and I understand why she doesn't feel like she has known the man she married 12 years ago.

Hi all, is it possible for somebody to post the link to the MB Radio program from April 10, 2015? It was rebroadcast on Friday and I listened to it this morning, but I would like to listen again. It has a lot of discussion that is applicable to my relationship and I'd like to listen again with my W.

I don't have access to the archives, but would appreciate it if somebody could provide the link on this thread. Is that possible?

Thanks!

I thought I understood POJA but I need to start over with it because I am failing. I would really appreciate the help from this group...

A couple weeks ago my wife and I agreed that I could attend a meeting early in the morning and go right into work. My understanding was that I could also attend other meetings in the morning, but I should come home after the other meetings. My wife thought she only agreed to ONE meeting per week. Clearly, we were disconnected on the agreement.

I attended a meeting on Wednesday and I told her last night that I was going to a meeting this morning too. I recognize now that this was a selfish demand because she did not expect that I was going to more than one meeting this week and I *told her instead of asking "how would you feel...".

She came to me later and pointed out that I wasn't using POJA. She told me she had planned on me being home in the morning and I replied to her that I had to go because I had scheduled time with my sponsor after the meeting. She said it wasn't POJA because that was not the agreement and I should be verifying that it's ok for me to go. I said that if I do nothing and stay home, then I am sacrificing and not enthusiastic about staying home. There was no negotiation. She finally got frustrated and told me to just go because the damage was already done...

I went to the meeting this morning, but I feel bad. I know Dr Harley would say to "do nothing", but I don't understand what that means in this case. If I had stayed home, then I would be sacrificing and doesn't this break POJA too because it's not enthusiastic agreement? I would be staying home reluctantly. What does "do nothing" mean in this case? Before I left this morning, I was stressed about going and I even asked my wife if I should stay home (do nothing) but she told me to go. If I stayed home now and she had to see me this morning, then I would be love busting her.

She is upset and I see how selfishly I acted, so how can I fix this next time?

You weren't being selfish. You were thoughtless.
You asked how to fix it the next time?

Easy. Ask how she would feel about EVERY SINGLE ACTIVITY you do BEFORE YOU DO IT. And if she isn't ENTHUSIASTIC then find a suitable alternative. Suitable as in, how would you feel about this other idea?

You can't make assumptions that just because one is good, more will be okay. After you finish the agreed upon activity, call her to check in, letting her know that you are thinking of her. Ask how she would feel about the next thing. This shows her that she is your highest priority and her input is valuable to you.

You do not need to be enthusiastic about the "do nothing" part of POJA.

Do nothing is always what you do if your spouse is not enthusiastic. Even if "do nothing" is deeply disappointing.

The do nothing only lasts until you find a solution that you are both enthusiastic about..

What if 'do nothing' goes on past the time of the event? If it's a one time event, then do I just need to learn how to let it go? If I miss the event and it's important then I don't want to hold onto resentment like I've done in the past.

Otherwise, if it's recurring, then I'm guessing I should turn it into a negotiation for the next time...?

Starting over... I decided today that I need a fresh start so I am starting over with the MB program. Starting by reading the Basic Concepts.

It may seem crazy that after two years, I have decided to start again but the truth is that I never even got to step two in the program. Out of selfishness and fear of facing the truth, I prevented myself from moving past the first step. It has been the ultimate in self-obsession and ego. I have thought I know it all, when the truth is that my actions show complete ignorance.

I am only posting this here because I realize I will need your help to do a complete 180 degree change in my attitude and approach toward relationships. I am seeking your wisdom, not your accountability to save my marriage.

I hope this reaches some other newcomers to the boards. Speaking from experience, this is so true and summarizes what I have done with my account at my W's bank...

"...if you withdraw more than you deposit, your Love Bank balance can fall below zero. When that happens the Love Bank turns into the Hate Bank. You will dislike those with moderate negative balances, but if the balance falls below the hate threshold, you will hate the person.

Try living with a spouse you hate! Your emotions are doing everything they can to get you out of there -- and divorce is one of the most logical ways to escape."

Yes, you would miss the event. With POJA it is possible that you will miss many events. The idea is you would negotiate OTHER things that would make you just as happy but that your spouse is also enthusiastic about. There is a good article on type A and type B resentment. The resentment you would have felt after missing that meeting would have faded to nothing once you found something else you enjoyed doing or found another solution for whatever reason you were going to the meeting. The resentment your wife feels over your violation of POJA cannot be resolved. It will only fade if and when you stop IB completely for a long time. Even then the resentment she feels will linger.