Eddie,

It seems you may not be in recovery.
How does your wife travel for work?
Are you spending 20 hours weekly on dates together?

I would never use the threat of divorce as a tool.

No. we are definitely not in recovery. She is still in the fog. She is still not interested in dates. She told me repeatedly to stop writing her love notes, complimenting her, and setting up dates. She says it pushes her away. All I'm doing right now is my best to make sure the affair is over, and letting her know I'm here if she needs me. All other attempts to show affection or interest in her are met with resistance by her.

This is pretty much exactly what Dr. Harley told me to do when I spoke and wrote to him, but I'm reaching the limits of my ability to wait around and do nothing without progress.

She simply doesn't want to be loved right now, at least not by me.

Eddie

Eddie,

Some people come to the decision to divorce and nobody here is going to tell you otherwise. I was in plan B for awhile and made the decision to divorce and am fine with it. I have no indication from him that he'd ever do what it took to recover the marriage. If you want to divorce then see a lawyer and start the process. It's usually very easy to just file. The starting paperwork is easy.

However, if you want to give it one last big push, perhaps go on a vacation with her alone for a few weeks. Something like a cruise where nobody can escape or have access to any outside communications. If that shows promise, I would really look into moving. It will remove triggers, change the conditions that led to the affair. This may help you feel safe.

But I would say, take action either way.

She won't move, which disappoints me. In fact, she won't agree to any of my requests if they result in her being inconvenienced, even if it's designed to help us recover. This is a big reason why I made the comments that Prisca identified as disrespectful. My statements may be disrespectful, but they are also based on observations of what drives her decision making. She cares far more about how SHE emerges from this ordeal than about how WE emerge from it. It is that selfish, self-centered mindset that I believe led her to consider straying as a valid option in the first place, and will ultimately keep us from recovering. This is why I am strongly considering divorce.

If my becoming aware of that behavior is disrespectful, than so be it.

Eddie,

She's had affairs on you! If that isn't the ultimate disrespect I don't know what is!
I'm not familiar with your case well, but as a general rule Harley would typically encourage a man in your position to try to meet as many of her emotional needs as possible while avoiding any "love busters." (including disrespectful judgements). So you can post her she is selfish, I already know she is. But you should never tell her she is selfish.

IF contact has ended between her and OM and the affair has died a natural death, the hope is that you will deposit enough love bank units to make her fall in love with you. After that, she will be willing to agree to MB programs and moving.

There's nothing strange with your WW here. She's behaving very typically.

If you want to divorce her, that's fine. But otherwise, you are going to have to end the disrespect. Yes, she's selfish. Yes, she's self-centered. That's typical, and it's behavior that can be changed.

There are reasons for abusive behavior such as disrespect, but there are no excuses. Learn to talk about the problem without the disrespect.

You have waffled on whether you want to divorce or recover since the beginning. You need to make the decision and put your full effort into it. Waffling back and forth is not good for either of you. If you want to divorce, get to a lawyer. If you want to recover, buckle down and do the work. But get out of limbo.

ALL are typical Waywards ways of thinking.

On one point I d out disagree with JK. You should NOT be posting you DJ's here.

That is, IF you still want to put effort into recovery.

When someone practices DJ's even on an anonymous forum, those attitudes translate into your Real Life. She WILL pick up on it.

LTL

I agree with the others...you should focus on eliminating lovebusting habits before you settle on divorce.

All of those things you've said may be true but as her husband they are for other people to worry about and not for you to sit in judgement of. You need to be focused on hearing her out and listening to her side of things rather than filling in those blanks yourself. You will INEVITABLY DJ her if you are drawing your own conclusions about her motivations. Her willingness to let you make lovebank deposits is going to continue to be nil if you are lovebusting her.

If you're going to divorce, it's certainly understandable but I would ensure you've made every effort to clean up your side of the street. Not necessarily just for her, but also so good marital habits are in place and practiced for your next relationship if that is how this ends up.

I always find it so puzzling when BSs go looking for disrespectful judgments. An affair is as disrespectful as it gets. So saying: "well sure it is, but I bet there is even MORE bad stuff hidden in their brain" is crazy. You aren't a mind reader and a WSs behaviour is there for the world to see. Stop poking around in her head - you will not find much during the course of an affair, which is a very single minded addiction.


Why on earth would a wayward spouse do any of that? Do you think she's actually processing this stuff and deciding that putting you through the mincer of an affair is A-OK but refusing to move out is a thoughtlessness too far?

This.

An affair can happen to anybody who lets another person meet their needs. They then become almost drunk on those needs and their entire being becomes geared towards staying drunk.

Sitting down and talking to the drunk, or expecting them to free or sober up themselves is nonsense.

You either abandon them to the consequences of their poor decision to fall down that slope, or you do the work to get them up, out and sober.

Whether you intend it to be or not 'asking' her for divorce is a lovebuster. Filing is a lovebuster too, but less of a one because you are not present and there is no back and forth - It inevitably ends up being a threat or insulting.

Besides if you're filing, you're presumably done and don't need to discuss it with her.

The indecision is mostly due to my 18 month old daughter. Divorce means I will not be with her every day, and my wife will likely have to move back home 100 miles away because she cannot afford to live in my area, even with my child support payments. If I did not have a child with my wife, I would have divorced her by now. I am 100% confident of that.

So because of this I am waiting, and I am trying my best to work plan A with a woman who is still deep in the fog and rejects plan A advances. The last known contact with OM was about a month ago, and that occurred even with my having access to everything of hers. If there is one positive, that contact was a string of messages of OM basically telling WW she was a worthless b**** who ruined his life and family, but that doesn't mean they haven't since reconciled. Their relationship was very fiery, and it ended and started up again several times, especially after I found out.

I really have taken the advice of this forum and done everything I can do to end this affair. All I can do now is wait and hope she realizes that I'm trying to save our family and not simply control her every move.

I'm searching for help with the waiting, the lack of trust, and the realization that I truly do not love my wife. I had been leaving love notes, planning dates, avoiding angry outbursts, trying to convince her we need to move, all of that. She told me to stop. She told me everything I do to show her love is an annoyance her right now. She told me to back off and that she wont live under my thumb. All of these requests just suggest that the affair is still ongoing, or is at major risk to start again with a simple phone call or text.

I'm not trying to control her. I'd been trying desperately to fix our marriage, but her complete rejection of every attempt of mine to do so has busted me far into the negative reaches of the love bank.

Honestly, It's all I can do just to be friendly to WW, and wait for her to decide whether or not she is capable of loving me again. The difference now from a few months ago is that I still loved her then. Now, I too have to decide if I can still love her again, and I'm not sure I can.

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm complaining, or weak, or indecisive. I'm just struggling to hold on. It's been 7 months since I found out, and so very little has changed with WW. I have changed so many things about myself to become a better father, husband and person, and I really wasn't a bad one to begin with. WW has done very little, and I'm not sure she ever will.


Eddie

Markos Has a great thread in the 101 for about what to do with a withdrawn wife.

Eddie,

How sure are you that there is no contact?

I'm not sure, and I never will be. There is no way to completely prevent contact, aside from moving far enough away that contact becomes irrelevant. WW would rather end our marriage than move away.

no contact letters, changed phone numbers, monitored phone bills, shut down social media accounts, and submitting a full schedule of one's plans can all be circumvented. she's done these things, but she can have a burner phone or go-between contact that I'll never be able to find or prove.

I realize finally that I will never ever trust WW again, and I doubt I'll ever trust anyone enough to carry on the type of relationship that I can be comfortable with. I had always been a trusting person, often to a fault, but no more. Aside from my parents and siblings, I trust almost no one now.

Indiegirl is right, If WW could do this to me, then anyone can. I question everything, I investigate everything, with or without permission from WW. I search, I snoop, I sneak. I assume guilt instead of innocence. I feel like my goal is to catch WW again, not to verify she is being true. Even the slightest bit of circumstantial evidence is, in my current state of mistrust, proof the affair is still ongoing. It's illogical and unfair, to both myself and WW, but to this point I have been unable overcome it. This is no way to live. I absolutely despise how my personality and manner of thinking has been altered by this affair.

I don't want to act this way, but I do, for fear of being betrayed, disrespected and taken advantage of. A 15 minute delay in WW returning home from an errand isn't a traffic issue, it's a potential rendezvous with OM. I'll never be satisfied, because no matter what I do or how hard I try, there will never be 100% iron clad proof that they are not in contact. Eventually, I'll just drive WW away because she'll grow tired of being watched, feeling like she's being watched, or being wrongfully accused. In fact, that is already happening.

Unfortunately, WW considers my vigilance a invasion of privacy. It certainly is, but I feel it's justified. I require that vigilance in order to feel some level of safety, and she requires a certain degree of freedom in her life. She is of course entitled to that freedom, but I doubt I'll be able to give it to her and remain comfortable in our marriage.

Since we are so far apart on what we both need to heal, we are at an impasse. There is no trust on either side of this relationship. WW feels she's doing enough to prove the affair is over, and she is doing a lot, but I still can't overcome the fear and doubt.

I guess it really is all my fault that we haven't recovered, as many people here have insinuated, but how do you trust someone who has betrayed you so completely

Infidelity really does cause complete and total destruction.

Eddie

By following the program.

EddieHead,

I have read your thread with great interest and compassion. And I have been moved by your honesty, your genuine attempts to cope with the devastation caused by your WW's affair, and your devotion to your daughter.

Can you update us on your progress or lack thereof? Regardless of the results, I am with you in spirit.

Wished