Six kids.

Actually I have. We are in a fairly small town and its not hard to pick out her car in the parking lot as I drive past.

1. I've had friends who have been cheated on. I know most of the things to look for. The pattern just isn't there.
2. Regarding friends covering up for her - not these friends. They are all married and I'm close to the husbands as well. We had a couple who was loosely connected to the group, her husband was a known pig, and she starting having an affair. When the group found out they exposed and interventioned immediately.
3. There is zero money trail indication. We are cashless, she has no personal income and uses a credit card or check for all transactions. Everything is logged in YNAB budget software. We are very open about our finances and I am highly anal about reconciling every account each month.
4. There is zero electronic/phone trail indication. I've worked in IT and I know the tracking tricks. I know all her passwords. I've looked repeatedly and its not there.
5. She has always been open about where she will be and who she is with - there has been no recent changes in this.
6. Even though an opportunity could potentially still exist after I've listed 1-5, it is very limited. She has the freedom to seek more opportunity to do potentially covert things by herself without the kids, but she hasn't. Conversely when we were dating, she would spend every possible moment with me. She clearly isn't doing that for some other guy, not even a little bit.
7. I've seen the pattern before with friends and there is not that pattern here.

Logically you can't absolutely prove a negative. I think I've already listed some more benign and likely explanations to the 2 or 3 "red flags" that do exist. And the harder to explain away red flags just aren't there.

So what are some signs a spouse ISN'T having an affair?

Hopefully not in his mother or MIL's own house.

Actually, yes.

Markos is in computers, too. Still slipped it past him. It doesn't take a genius to hide an affair when your spouse is convinced you're not up to anything.

The only way you can know that is by snooping.

Point taken, but in this instance it wasn't meant or received that way. It was an "Iron sharpens Iron" moment where she related her feelings, some of which she didn't realize she had until she talked thru them. I simply challenged her line of reasoning with another perspective, which she agreed with rather quickly. My summary of the conversation probably didn't relay that very well.

In a marriage in which you both are in love, you must avoid "Iron sharpens Iron" moments. It will drain the lovebank, whether you (or she) wants it to or not.

DBack, all I can say is, it's not working for you. I made the same mistake, too. Take my word for it - if you want to have a happy marriage, you have to stop doing this, whether you mean it or not or however she takes it or whatever.

Have you listened to the Marriage Builders Radio show?

I'll agree with this. I actually declined happy hour this evening and came home and took a rather nice walk with the wife. At this point I should probably go spend some more time with her before bed instead of on this thread arguing the possibility of an already existing affair.

I also work in IT and specialize in security and cryptography. I know how to track things, how to hack things and how to hide things.

My wife still managed to have an affair, even being very consciously aware that I could compromise her devices if I wanted to look.

Some things all the IT skills in the world won't help you with:

- affair phones you don't know about. prepaid/burner phones.

- secret rendezvous being traveled to in a car you aren't tracking.

- secret email accounts and chat accounts on PCs and smart phones that you aren't key logging.

- gas lighting (which is a rough equivalent to what is called social engineering in hacking)


Until you have keyloggers on all her devices and a VAR and GPS on every vehicle she is driving, I assure you your wife has more than adequate space to conduct an affair.

You can look now and be certain of what's going on here or wait to snoop until it's too late, like I did. Your call.

Oh gag, that is SO disrespectful.

Stop telling your wife what to think.

DBack,

Sorry if you already answered this but, and this is important has your W ever said to you, �I love you but am not in love with you� ?

You wrote,. This girl is a mom, a karate brown belt, tough mudder, writer, and white-tail hunter. (My wife and I do share a lot with each other, can you tell?)

But the cool part is that she has 2 bucks hanging in her living room. After years of stating that such could never hang in her house, my wife told me tonight that I could hang the next good buck I bag in the entry-way.

I see a couple of potential issues her,

One being her hanging with a gf with masculine traits, and yes a woman can become emotionally dependent on another woman, my W said that about one of her friends. Does you W complain about you to this woman? There is a chance the relationship is physical.

the other being her changing her character radically based on the influence of another person. What is often seen in affairs is that the cheating partner starts drinking, doing drugs, stops going to church, hangs out with younger people, works out with greater passion etc.

Gamma

Gamma - No, she has never said anything like that. She is totally committed to staying married, and my title of the post was more my imagination running ahead than based on any desire of hers to be single. And she isn't complaining to the friend about me. The friend likes me a lot too, and if my wife was complaining, she would have turned her against me. DW and I have always had a policy of not airing the dirty laundry with friends or even our own parents, and I have watched her keep to that over the years. So there are a few indications that could "possibly" mean an affair or could be something else entirely, but also a lot of evidence against one and/or towards another explanation.

Regarding the drinking, drugs, etc - there is none of that. She actually has some medical issues which are being treated and are now under control, but she can't/doesn't drink. One full glass of wine knocks her out. I go to all her Dr appts, I see the blood test results, there are no secrets, and any substance abuse would be pretty obvious (also the money trail - every dollar is accounted for). And she is still very involved in church and with the same friends we have always had.

I really think the reduction in sex drive can be very reasonably explained by a combination of hormone imbalance from her medical issues, tiredness from her dietary restrictions and kids and all their activities, various common distractions and depressing issues such as a friend with a terminal kid, another friend with terminal cancer, and things I've done - Love Busters - that have built up over the years.

So while I will continue to keep my eyes open and search for signs of an actual affair, I really think that is more of a future threat if I continue to neglect her than a present reality. So yeah, my goal is to turn this around before it gets to that point. Its already started to show some positive results.

Also, assuming there is no physical affair with the GF, and if the masculine GF could be a future threat - especially of becoming emotionally dependent or acquiring independent traits, how would I address that one without coming across as controlling?

"But the cool part is that she has 2 bucks hanging in her living room. After years of stating that such could never hang in her house, my wife told me tonight that I could hang the next good buck I bag in the entry-way."

DW has a follower personality - always has. She grew up in a traditionalist home where wildlife was not displayed. It was also an upbringing of "Our way is the only/best way. Don't question it. Everyone else is wrong." Strawmen examples/stereotypes and all that.

Now she has a cool friend or two who do decorate with wildlife and don't come across as the redneck stereotype she associated with deer displays. She has flipped on other issues as well once she saw that people who do things a certain way don't always follow the negative traits she associated with such actions.

I think its natural to people to change views as they mature and experience life. The challenge is to separate the personal preferences (that were often taught as principles) from the absolute truths that all men should live by. I've seen other friends throw away too much of God, the concept of Church, relationships, and healthy rules to live by once they saw a major flaw in something that was associated with one of the above.

Doing so now - just installed the app.

I don't know your wife anywhere close to as well as you do, and so a lot of this may be true, but there's quite a bit of disrespectful tone towards her in this post. Looking down on her upbringing, searching for a contradiction in her words now verses years ago, making assumptions about why she changed her mind on various issues, etc.

I'm no saint on the topic of DJs (to the contrary, my tendency to disrespect was a major destructive force in my marriage...I'm still working on changing that habit)...but if you want to improve this, you must stop filling in the blanks on your wife like this. It's OK to make these types of judgments about other people, you can't make them about her. You may not be able to see this, but the tone you have here comes across as very paternalistic and would probably offend her greatly.

I'm on the other side of this (divorced) and just trying to pass a word of caution to you: LISTEN. Listen to her. Let HER fill in the blanks on why she does things, or thinks things, etc. And certainly never talk to her about her family or upbringing in this tone, it would offend anyone who doesn't feel as negatively about their own family. Maybe she's said those words too about them first, but otherwise, you should not be. At all.

As men we are systematic thinkers...we want to understand the inner workings of things, how they operate, etc. That's probably why you are in IT, because it's part of how you have to think to work in IT. You have to teach yourself things constantly and put the pieces together.

But when it comes to her, her spoken or written word needs to be the gospel truth on what is happening inside her head, how she feels, or why she did/didn't do something. Anything else you conjure up to explain it is dangerous to your marriage and will destroy her feelings for you.

More disrespect.

Fantastic! Listening to that show every day will do wonders for helping you learn the new habits that are needed for a good marriage.

Her words, not mine.