It is, but the letter also conveys openness to reconciliation, if you are open. She might not try even if she wanted to if she thought he wouldn't give him a chance. I may be wrong, but that's my thought. Plan B kind of leaves all options open for the betrayed spouse. If he decides no later then that's fine. At this point though, I'd only do if he'd actually give her a chance. If not, then there is not really a point.

I can see the logic in that. It's been a while since he was able to do any Plan A gestures, so the silence could possibly be interpreted as lost interest. A Plan B letter could prompt a response from her if she has, in fact, ended her affair.

That's true but she's got enough hurdles to clear at this point that if she can't get past the fear of getting rejected, I don't think she's up for R.

That's a DJ to say that, admittedly, but I'd have to see real willingness to change to even entertain it at this point and so I don't mind leaving my willingness unstated.

Her family is aware that I am waiting until the end of the year to formally move on so if she has any curiosity around them I don't doubt they will mention it. Though they were not very supportive about pressuring her to end her affair, they have overwhelmingly expressed that they'd rather not see us apart.

My position has changed on all of this over the last 6 months. If she wants this she's going to need to take initiative, that's one of the bars I've set.

All that stuff stopped because it showed up in court at a restraining order hearing to be used to paint me as someone who was harassing her. She explicitly had her lawyer communicate to me/my lawyer that those gestures needed to stop.

Now granted, she didn't succeed with the RO so it didn't end up being of consequence, but given what had happened, I didn't feel it was worth it to give heartfelt compliments and affection to someone who was going to use the same sentiments to try and convince a judge that you're a crazy person stalker type.

In a sane world someone would say "yes, but that's her husband trying to reach out and win her back"...but we all know the nature of the world we live in.

ETA: I say all that to say she knows why contact has ended. I made clear early on to her (as I was advised here to do) that I was interested in talking about the marriage, and my lawyer was the only person who would talk to her about property or D.

Yeah, in my case, the last communication I had with my wife was me telling her I did not want the divorce and that I wanted her to end her affair and come home. The divorce decree has a mutual restraining provision in it, but she must know that I'd be willing to talk to her if she initiated contact. Anyway, no Plan B letter for me.

Mine wasn't terribly romantic, but it wasn't bad. He knew what he had to do, he just didn't do it.

He'd talk to me if he could, but mostly to harass me. He'd eat cake once-in-awhile too, but harassing would be his top priority.

I look at the Plan B Letter as the last offering of Plan A, sort of the Bridge that allows the transution from Plan A to a properly facilitated Plan B.

The Letter itself is Not Plan B, but just the shift in strategies to now concentrate on protecting yourself and any remaining emotions and feelings of past love.

LTL

I've been wanting to post some updates on things but it's hard to know what to say.

I don't want this to be a blog or to waste anyone's time, and really nothing is happening with the A or WXW that I have any knowledge of. But I very much enjoy reading some of the other threads of divorced BSes and I think for someone seeing their situation head towards D there are many thoughts that come to mind and you want a glimpse of life on the other side.

So, some general observations:

- Being a divorced BS is weird, especially with no kids. Your WS heads off to wherever with their AP, but you're just left with you. It's GREAT to work on the self-improvement aspect of recovery because you have all of this flexibility all of a sudden. But it's a bit cruel because you feel like you did the right thing and now you're the one left alone.

- Going from married to divorced is weird with no kids. I look at unmarried single guys my age, and man, I just cannot relate much. You have that experience of knowing how much one has to change to accommodate a spouse, and with that many of the habits of unmarried men look ridiculous now. I feel grateful for the experience because I feel prepared in a way I wasn't the first time around, but I don't feel like I blend in with those guys. I still find myself able to relate much more to husbands.

- Plan B is a good place but it's a very dark and strange place in some ways. I honestly find myself forgetting more and more of WXW. Who she was, what she was like. It probably doesn't help that I was so frustrated with parts of the marriage before any of this happened, but when she comes to mind on occasion I find myself remembering much less of what it was like to talk to her, what her personality was like, what it was like being her husband. Because of the SF issues I really never felt valued or desired by her (other than in our dating days), and so I guess I don't have much to draw from in a few key areas.

I think of the occasional odd story here where the WS comes out of the fog waaaaay down the road, but it's sure hard for me to conceive how she could remember anything good about me (other than Plan A) when I have such a difficulty remembering things about her by this point, and I don't have the distraction of a new partner to hold my attention. Maybe it works differently for the WS than the BS.

I realize now that I was in a depression fog of sorts for much of my marriage. I knew I felt trapped with someone who I didn't really think loved me much, but I didn't know how to address the issue at the time and I don't think I realized how much unmet ENs were affecting how I felt overall. I feel stronger, smarter, more confident and more attractive now, and while a lot of that has to do with my activities, it's surprising how much of it simply has to do with Plan B and being away from WXW and the situation.

I would certainly never advise against Plan B. I have seen so many BHs here and in real life that never break contact with the WW (even past divorce) or remain gaslit by the WWs excuses for years, and they are often broken men with very little confidence. If I had never found MB I often wonder if I would be there too right now, shouldering all of the blame for someone else's irresponsibility. Between the wayward, their family, their friends, and the many weak-kneed churches in modern America, I think many men get destroyed emotionally by so much bad/enabling advice and misplaced blame. All I can say is if you don't want that to be you, Plan B is the blueprint.

News:

My church has just been awesome for me and summer is so much fun. We had a sports themed VBS this year and I was head coach for the basketball portion. Ran drills, did scrimmages, etc. I am a former BB player and come from a BB family (my dad was a college coach) so it was a lot of fun working with the kids on BB stuff.

There's been a lot of need at the church recently with the youth program in general as we had our HS youth pastor leave, and while it's been hectic to plug more and more church activities into my schedule, it's been very rewarding to work with the kids. I am leading worship services for the HS kids for the time being and between that and running basketball camp I've had lots of people complimenting me on things they didn't know I could do before. It's really nice actually. I think BSes sort of get used to feeling invisible so when people notice something new about you it's a big shot in the arm for confidence.

I don't think I've mentioned this on here but I'm trying hard to get a career change happening before next year when I want to start dating. I'm learning a new (to me) programming language at work and I'm hoping to be able to use that as a bridge to a better job. Balancing my career ambitions with my home life was something I didn't take seriously enough in my marriage and so I see my single time now as the best time to get the ducks in a row there.

I am anxious to get dating, but I will say the sting of betrayal and divorce has proven a mighty strong motivator to make sure I get ax's problems fixed before I go make them someone else's problems (and theirs mine). So many good resources here at MB on so many topics useful to husbands (or husbands in training)!

Oh good, this experience is universal then. I find myself in the weird spot of being a single mom after divorce. I have more in common with the moms, of course. I think one good thing is that I have a few good girlfriends my age that have remained single and since we are all in our 30's now, everyone is pretty mellow. The main difference is focus on our careers. Before my daughter, I was pretty high flying with my career, but downshifted a bit after her. I'll be focusing more on it again soon though, so that will help. But in general it is weird, I agree. I'm much more wife-like and, of course 100% more mom like than any of my single friends.

I'm also forgetting things and just not thinking about them as much. It used to be so painful for me to think about the good things in my marriage, but now it doesn't hurt so much. I am disappointed in my wh's choices and sad for the way things turned out, but overall those things don't affect me too much. I do think that a WS's distraction with the AP precludes them from grieving or having any perspective, so that's why some try to come back later after the affair partner is gone. I get the feeling that this is more common with men though. After the thrill is gone, they want their families back. It's less true for women, but it does happen. Overall though, it's inevitable that your new life crowds out your old at some point. That's just life moving forward.

Plan B is great. I don't think it matters if your a man or a woman, being around an unrepentant wayward destroys you at some point. Women just feel the destruction faster. But yeah, the more that you are exposed to a wayward, the more you are convinced it's normal, so getting away from it is extremely important in terms of being able to rebuild confidence. Adultery is horribly abusive and few people (men especially) realize that.

That's very similar to my own experience, ax.

And PW, I don't think anyone realizes the devastation caused by an affair until they experience it themselves. I don't think my friends and family that went through it with me understand, even now. I always considered adultery a sin, but I never thought about the pain it causes the betrayed spouse.

Your plan looks great to me, so happy and positive! One of the things about being a marriage-minded singleton is you are going to be an amazing catch and you are going to be looking for an amazing catch.

I was lucky enough to have some like-minded friends at this stage - but friendship networks can be created and I think your church and youth activities are perfect for this.

As a single guy you don't need to focus on your friendships being male. Friendship networks are great ways to meet people who will introduce you to other people. I think Facebook is a disaster for lots of married people, but good for singletons (your dates will have somewhere to check out your back story and vice versa). Remember you can have single female friends and don't forget married men - couple friends are great for
set ups.


Hey they made their bed, let them struggle to get out of it on their own. Keep your options and choose the right person my friend.

A BS is happy to spend some time alone processing and making ready. To choose carefully using both heart and brain and checking on values and truth.

You have just the same freedom to fall into a misery-based relationship with the first hunter-of-suckers willing to listen to your woes like she did. A person who was looking for low hanging fruit. Instead you are too sensible to base a relationship on drama, pain and unhappiness and call that passion. I think it's wonderful you are waiting to feel strong and happy first.

Thanks indie!

I have become good friends with 3 different couples my age from church and they already joke with me about setting me up with people! I am a very independent person and so my instinct is almost to react jokingly like "you sayin I need help?!" but being slightly older and wiser I realize it doesn't hurt at all to have someone put in a good word for you or help you out there. When I was a senior in high school my younger sister tried to set me up with a girl in her class (2 years behind me) who was very smart and fairly cute, and whom I'd already befriended and enjoyed the company of very much. But after I found out it was her scheme to be matchmaker it just soured the whole deal for me (my sister and I didn't much get along then...typical teenage siblings ) and I torpedoed the whole thing out of hubris (and also because I had my sights set on another girl). Now I wonder how wise that was!

I must confess I've been going back reading through the middle of Jedi's thread and all of the stories/reaction/commentary from his experience with online dating and such. Totally stalkin ya over here Jedi. :P

But honestly, I will say the dating part of my future is very interesting to think about and see everyone's thoughts on the process in general (sites/approaches/etc). I did have crushes now and then growing up but I was too immersed in my own stuff (sports/cars/hobbies/etc) to be the type that was trying to pick up girls all the time. I was lonely now and then, but not most of the time, and I had things I wanted to get done before I worried about that.

When my ex came along it was simply a matter of us getting stuck together in a new job. She trained me and we got to know each other, and after about 3 months of becoming friends and hanging out, I fell for her and we started dating. I wasn't out looking for a girlfriend, it just sort of happened.

So now, I'm honestly on the hunt the for the first time in my life. And it's not intimidating or anything, it's exciting. Between my experience of being married already and what I've learned here about relationships, I feel very poised actually. I wish I could send my 29-year old brain back in time about 10 or 11 years. :P I suppose that's pretty common.

I'm just thinking about which avenues to explore to meet people. I definitely want to do the 30 people thing because I feel like I have a lot to learn there, and the idea of sampling 30 different personalities and such is very exciting to me. I can't imagine latching onto the first person that came along when I've got this chance right now to really find out what's out there. I'm sure there will be some disappointments but that's life.

I know I want to try online dating (my single friends all bemoan the cost of these sites but I usually answer them "do you expect the dates to be free of cost?!") but what's got me curious is thinking about the more brick and mortar approaches, how I can add that to my pool here. I'm not a drinker or a clubber, so I'm sure I'd look like a fish out of water at a bar or rave. And it's important to me to be authentic to people I'm meeting. But I know that's just the tip of the iceberg on where to meet people. I'm not trying to become a player or anything, but I do want to meet a lot of women, and I'm realizing that if I put as much effort into this as I've put into a lot of other things in my life I would probably be very surprised by the results.

I'm the kind of guy you could lock in a room for a week with a project and I can just focus like a laser on it until it's done. I love stuff like that.

I guess this all sort of came to mind today because my family went on a camping trip this weekend and in tagging along I realized how much fun it would be to have someone there with me to share it with. I had a really good time with my siblings and their families (I don't feel like the odd man out as I did being around my family after D-day) and I'm ready to be able to share this kind of stuff with a companion.

Axe,
The crossroads are a mystery. May you choose the road to happiness. And you will with God's grace.

Oh, and as my daughter and I say, "God is love; Ball is life."

We are also a basketball family.

okay Ill offer my two bit advice.
Avoid being "set up" on blind dates.
Never go on a blind date.
Also, you don't have to go to bars to meet women. Sometimes I flirt with waitresses at diners.

Just try to get as many phone numbers as you can. Try to make her laugh and feel comfortable and get her number.

And remember, the phone number isnt for talking on. Its so you can ask her out on a date. No texting, no conversation over 10 minutes on the phone

Also if you do online dating be forewarned that most women misrepresent themselves online. So you will see pictures from 5 years ago (before the baby and Ben and Jerry's came along) and photos with Hollywood like special effects.

If you see ANY bedroom photos, she's not worth pursuing.

Oh, and one more thing...after you get the number wait 5-9 days before calling.

Jedi, where does this advice come from? Just wondering since if I was single, some of this would turn me OFF.

How has the advice that you're giving about dating been working for you?

I have done a lot of online dating...like, a lot, lol. And two of my good friends have done it too. So I can give you some advice.

I don't know how you can do online dating and not text. You exchange messages online, you either ask for a date, then get the girl's phone number or ask for the phone number and then while texting ask for a meet up. It's just part of the escalation...

Plus once you get the number, you can do a reverse search on the cell to get the woman's name and then check her out on FB. Sadly, JK is correct that many people do not look like their photos so this would be a good opportunity for you to verify this if you like. For me as a woman, it is also a chance to verify who the person is for safety reasons. You can decide whether that step is important enough for you to follow through on.

I wouldn't play games in terms of waiting xx number of days to text or call the person. Don't be clingy but don't play games. Find a happy medium. In general, I would say exchange a few messages thru whatever online service you are using (3 at most) ask the girl if she would like to meet for a drink or coffee...if she says yes give her your cell phone number and most likely she will give you hers and let you make the first move.

Don't do dinner for the first date, cuz you don't want to be stuck for that long in case you guys don't hit it off, plus you are going to be spending at ton of money if you are taking everyone out to dinner for the first date.

Don't go crazy with the messaging... Don't be overly picky! If a girl is cute, no red flags are raised in your conversations or when you do your mini background check (if you choose to do this step), go for a drink! It's fun and even if it's bad at least you will get some experience under your belt and have some funny stories to share with your friends...

Most men make huge mistakes with the profile. The pictures are the most important part....please take extra steps with your looks like whitening your teeth and having a female friend or family member help you with your photos. I can't believe how many men use really bad pictures. And then focus so much on what they write. Unfortunately a lot of online dating is superficial and then you get to know the inside once you actually meet up.