All,

I've had a chance to look over the situation here and have the following comments.
First of all, I had the opportunity to talk to Dr. and Joyce Harley about my situation and was interviewed on their radio station.

They are both very nice and committed people, and were very sympathetic to my situation and were helpful. Dr. Harley did say that my current living condition with my ex may not be totally inappropriate. We plan to marry at sometime in the future, but will be a religious marriage only, not one sanctioned by the state. The current laws do not favor marriage from a financial point of view and we both feel that is not in our best interest for our relationship, however, I did tell Dr. Harley that I would explore that again with some professionals, which I am doing.

I was also asked other questions and given good answers. For the most part everything was positive.

I did email them later and wanted clarification on my living situation and he did say that I should marry her within a week or move out.

My current counselor has advised us to stay together for many reasons and at this time, that is our choice.

I hope my situation is not offensive to anyone here and I have no problem if one chooses not to respond. I'm sure I'll continue to learn from here and may post as appropriate.

I see no point in anybody trying to help you with Marriage Builders when you are refusing to follow the program from the get-go. You are cherry picking, and it will not work.

We'll all help encourage you to follow this excellent advice from Dr. Harley.

Marry her within a week, or move out. There's not much else we can tell you.

Actually they do, unless you are planning to end the marriage at some point.

Agreed. How can it be true that not getting married favors you? The only case where that could be true is if someone is on public assistance or something and getting married doesn't help the financial situation (which would be absurd). Getting married basically always helps financially. You are pooling resources, which is always a help.

You must have an AGI of >$349k as a married couple to see significant marriage penalties. With a good CPA, you can legally shelter a large amount of money. And most couples who do make that much still get married.

And you were married long enough that your wife has a right to all your assets anyway.

Get married or move out already.

What date were you on the radio show? I listen regularly. I remember an email being addressed that sounded like you, but I missed you being a live guest. I would like to re-listen to that show.

Well,

I was on the radio show June 30th.

Marco and Prisca: I cannot take financial advice from someone that is not knowledgable about it and doesn't know what the laws are. There are clearly advantages of being single to a HUGE extent for our situation and we have decided that it's appropriate to be single by "man's" law. I realize that you're against our living situation. However, Dr. Harley did have some reservations, which he clearly stated on the radio show, and my current counselor (who is very much as qualified as the Harley's, has advise that we were fine) makes me feel strong in our decision to stay together.

FWIW, we BOTH have a right to each other's assets, and have agreed to same, but that's not the topic of discussion.

We don't have plans to end things, and makes no financial difference.

We are prudent people and do financial planning to benefit US, not anyone else, including the government.

And, no, we will not separate at this time. We have lived together for some 40 years, why do you think we can't handle living together now, with our differences solved? Even Dr. Harley mentioned that.

Most of you have gone thru similar situations and have come out OK, as we plan to do. If we can get help here, we will appreciate it. We look for help and guidance from many sources.

The "man's laws" excuse is what most renters and freeloaders say in order not to get married. Being financially, emotionally and spiritually vulnerable to another person is what constitutes a marriage. Not being legally married makes a huge difference. If you want to just live with your girlfriend obviously nobody can stop you, but this bunch won't be able to offer you any advice.

We'll all help encourage you to follow Dr. Harley's excellent advice: marry her in a week, or move out.

Since taxes are the priority, just do whatever you want to do.

I listened to the radio show again.

I don't get it. You seem to be more interested in seeking approval for your solution than you are at accepting advice. Why? Why do you care what Dr. Harley or the rest of us think? The success or failure of your relationship does not depend on what we think. It depends on what the two of you do.

Get married if you are serious; don't if you are not. The money issue is a red herring. My wife and I could profit if we were to divorce, because she is ineligible to collect her social security because of my government pension. Using your logic, we should go ahead and divorce because we are already totally committed to each other, so we could still have each other and all that extra money, too. Not on your life. When you are really in love, money doesn't matter more than your marriage. Your problem is that you really aren't committed all that much, so the choice isn't obvious to you.

What is fine about living together? These relationships are not fine. They are uncommitted, tenuous, fragile relationships by their very nature. And yours is no exception. Just the fact that you place money before your relationship says it all. You have had many problems in the past, and you will have more in the future because this is a renters relationship. Once that happens, it will be too easy to just walk away. Or is that the point?

Either way, i am not sure what you want help with here since you aren't here to follow Dr Harley's advice. If you have a counselor who tells you shacking up is great, then why come here for advice that you aren't going to take?

First, I'm not going to debate the points you've made above that are just not true, that I've stated in the past, I'll let you read past posts.

Everything is fine about living together, and that's what we have decided to do at this time. I love it and so does she. Marriage will probably be in the future, but there are MANY, MANY folks that "shack up" as you say (I call it living together), that are doing every bit as good or better than their married counterparts. Marriage does NOT guarantee a thing, as is clearly evident by the history of the posters here, and statistics.
If I insisted on marriage and my GF did not, we would not be following the POJA, which we choose to follow. That is more important, along with other basic concepts that foster a good relationship... not just living quarters.

While Dr. Harley did suggest that we marry or move apart, he also said that our situation may not be inappropriate.

I've come for advise, just that, as I do from many sources. And I don't always agree, nor is all advise applicable or even well advised.

You are free to do what you wish. However, I am at a loss as to what you want from this forum. You will never convince us that your living together arrangement is a good thing. We are never going to give our approval. And the only advice you will ever hear from us is "Get married or move out."

But you are not married so the POJA does not apply. The principles recommended here are for marriages, not for dating situations.

You were given good advice: don't shack up. There is nothing here for you if you aren't married.

Radio Clips of Homelover's Show
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

But why does someone unmarried want advice about marriage? Follow your own advice if you like, it's a free country. This website explicitly advises people not to live together because the subsequent marriage, if they get that far, is very unstable and the divorce statistics for these 'many, many people' are through the roof.

But you don't have to follow the advice of this site or of Dr H. You are entirely free to follow your own judgement.

What's the problem?