If you were married we would tell you to expose to OW family and friends too. As long as they have some supporters they have options.

We started living together and got comfortable with it. The need for it never came up.

I dunno about serial cheating. He's a good one. the only chance he would have had would have been when he goes away for trade shows and conferences, and that would have been for something like a one night stand.

You could ask for a polygraph to rule out serial cheating.

Your first step is to snoop and find out if contact continues. Spyware on home computers and voice recorders in rooms he would be likely to have conversations in.

I'd also look for a secret affair phone. That is what usually happens.

Thanks, the snooping idea is really good. But what do I do if I find continued contact? I mean are a few emails here and there enough to make it an affair really - do any damage to us?

Exposing to family, that I would have to leave in my sister-in-law's hands. She will tell their family in the best way possible if she hasn't already.

Well, you're not replying to me any more, so I'll bow out now. I'll just answer this point you made:

The difference between marriage and living together is immense. It is like the difference between buying a home and renting a home. We make a public commitment to care for and be faithful to each other, until death, when we marry, and we volunteer for the legal ties that the marriage vows create. When did you make that public declaration, by living together? Without it, I don't think you really have any moral right to ask other people to call your boyfriend to account for his behaviour - which is what you are doing when you formally expose the other relationship.

The decision not to marry is as much a decision as is the decision to marry. One of the benefits of the living together situation is that it allows either party to walk away with relatively little trouble. There might be a house to sell, and there might be a business to run, but you are each free to be with someone else as soon as you decide to be - that won't stop you being the parent of your son. You have an arrangement where neither one of you is tied down by "a piece of paper", and freedom to do what you want is a consequence.

You do not have legal right to spy on any electronic devices he owns, and I wonder what legal grounds your sister-in-law had for firing one of her employees. Did she commit misconduct in the workplace?

I know that it must be devastating to discover that the man you have lived with for 18 years, the father of your son, got involved with someone else. However, I don't think you have the legal right to spy on him and then expose with the evidence.

You can ask him to end the relationship, and to be honest with you if he isn't going to end it. If you suspect he is not being honest, you can spy - but if you are caught doing so, or if you reveal the evidence, your boyfriend and OW might sue. I would check your rights in that area with a lawyer.

If you continue to suspect, or you find proof, that he is being unfaithful, then you can leave (or ask him to leave).

What question of yours did I miss, Sugar? I assure you it was not intentional.

Families that cohabit have nearly the same rights as married couples really. So I can spy. However, I think my trying to expose to his family will alienate them, I agree. I let my very nice sister-in-law handle that for me.

During the probation period a company can dismiss an employee for any reason other than a specifically prohibited few here.

And I don't want to leave. I want to win him back. Maybe ask him to commit and get married or, if he does not after all these years, ask him to leave?

You expose using your evidence.

OW needs to be exposed too though really and they ALL scream "I'll sue" when they are exposed. You're too legally vulnerable. But she needs batting off. OW are very tenacious, much more so than OM who scamper after they've had their fun. She will be clinging tenaciously to the idea he is free and single too.

You know I do know a recovered unmarried affair couple. The woman is not an MBer but she instinctively followed many of the MB rules for recovery. The OW was pregnant (either my friend's bf or her own fiance) and my friend (who had a son with him) insisted on complete no contact with both woman and child. She also demanded marriage and a job where he was home every night. Initially this meant being jobless but he's actually a lot more successful now.

I wasn't sure about her decision but they are happily recovered today and have two kids. However I think a lot of the success was due to a widespread exposure. She had dumped him at first and told everyone why. The woman's fiance also told the world why he was calling off the wedding....

That is very encouraging, Indie.

I'm too worried about issuing the "marry or leave" ultimatum right now. If I do I'd be bluffing, hoping that he would choose the "marry" option.

So I think I will follow the MB guidelines and do 6 months of Plan A first and see. If at the end of that period the affair is till on, then I can issue the ultimatum and mean it. Also Plan A will increase the chances he will choose the "marry" option, right?

Dr. Harley often comments that if a relationship continues past about two years without leading to marriage, in his experience, it's usually not going to make it. So if you did feel like issuing that ultimatum, and he chose to leave, you might find that in the end that was the best thing.


Dr. Harley doesn't advise six months of Plan A for women, and his advice is frequently different in cases where people are not married.

Jenni I think you need to be aware that, according to Dr. Harley, a woman typically can't win a man back.

Plan A is 3 weeks for women. Any more than that just works against you and makes you LESS desirable.

I would add that I don't think snooping or exposing is appropriate in a dating relationship. Its not an affair in the first place, because there is no marriage. What is there to expose?

You'll be dead in six months if you try that. You'll gain ten years on your face in a month It's too hard for women and it's a turn off to men to be competed for. Wives are told to plan b within three weeks.

One of the most successful things I think My friend did was tell him to get out. And she kept him out until she was given commitment and guarantees.

You know this is such a small requirement after so many years - assurance that if you give any MORE years of your life he will still be around after retirement.

If he says no then it isn't the piece of paper formality formerly assumed - and in that case you can do better.

Don't give him a low standard to aim for. Not just marriage but the whole MB recovery plan gambit.

We are as good as married. He asked me to marry him a few times around the 3 year mark and I said I trusted him and was happy with the relationship as we were. It was my fault that I never pushed for it.

> Jenni I think you need to be aware that, according to Dr. Harley, a woman typically can't win a man back.

Where does he say that!!! Then what can a woman do to save the relationship?!

Do you mean to say that when a man strays it's the end of the relationship?!

Just know that being married is completely different from living together. There is a critical difference much akin to the difference between renting a house and buying it.

Yes, he does say that. A woman who tries to win her husband back just makes herself look less attractive. And she tears herself down in the process, making her even less attractive.

Markos didn't say when a man strays it is the end of the relationship.

> Plan A is 3 weeks for women. Any more than that just works against you and makes you LESS desirable.

Why does it make a woman less desirable?!