Are you all justifying her cruelty? She is 22 years old and I NEVER have advocated abandonment of a child! And he is not led by the nose. If I sound angry at your assumptions, forgive me, but I am. She cut her dad out of her life at this moment. I already explained why my husband and I are unable to take her older brother in. Here is a timeline:
1986: He met wife #1 and they began dating
1987: She gets pregnant. The relationship is problematic, but he decides to marry her and make a family for the child. He works while she stays at home. Their daughter is born in December.
This is when she starts having affairs.
Winter 1988; She had an affair with his best friend and was caught in the act in their home. OM was run out of the house.
April 1989: A son is born to them. Sometimes after, she starts an affair with a man whom she says is "just a friend."
October 1989 (approximate): She conceives a son by another man and gets a court order to force the husband out of the house so OM can move in. He continues with visitation and support faithfully.
During this time (not excusing him here, he also made bad choices), he begins living with a woman whom he's known since childhood and helps her raise her infant son, whom the father has denied. He is still seeing his kids. He admitted that it was wrong for him to have begun a relationship with someone else while still legally married to wife #1.
December 1989: He and OW conceive child
July 1990: Wife gives birth to son by OM.
September 1990: His OW delivers a boy. She tries to give child away because she wanted a girl and an argument ensues.
Divorce is pending during this time. Still, it was wrong.
July 1992: He and OW have daughter, who is the last child. He visits kids' from marriage regularly. He even includes the OC because he feels sorry for him and does not want him to feel left out. He works 2, sometimes 3 jobs, explaining that the children's mother is wasteful with money, giving it away without his agreement.
1993: Wife, whom he has a restraining order against, comes to his apartment with kids and says she wants to get back together because she and OM have broken up. He brings the kids inside to sit on sofa, gives them something to eat, and talks to her on the porch. He says he will always care for the children, but there will be no repairing their relationship. He said she violated the court order by coming to his home, but he did not have the heart to have her arrested in front of the kids
He told me that the girlfriend (let's use MB terms and call her the OW) pressured him to get married once his divorce was finalized. He said he had a gut feeling it would not work. I asked him, why make babies under such conditions?
June 1994: He and OW get married. Some time after this is when she gave him an ultimatum to quit visiting the kids by wife #1 (who were living with the maternal grandmother due to mother's neglect- he had fought for custody, but lost) or else she'd divorce him and he'd never see his younger children again. Terrified, he submits to his wife's demands. He acknowledges that he was wrong.
At this time, CPS was involved with the family, beginning with their mutual son's birth in 1990, citing neglect. The caseworker informed my now DH that the only reason his kids weren't being removed was because he was in the house. Wife #2 refused to even clean the house, prepare meals, or do anything while he worked. I told him he could have called her bluff and gotten custody. He decided to make the best of a bad situation (indifferent wife) so he could be with his kids.
Second wife engages in a series of affairs. Like wife #1, this includes his best friend. She hits on his cousin as well. She allegedly goes shopping, but "disappears' for hours while he is at home with the kids.
1995: First wife remarries and is living in Maine with new husband.
2001: My now-DH and second wife are separated and he lives with his mother. He does a 2 week volunteer search rescue stint at Ground Zero in NYC. He decides to give marriage another chance and moves back into family home. There was never any exposure of affairs, and to this day, the kids refuse to believe Mom ever cheated.
2004: Couple separates again. She has a boyfriend and files a restraining order under false pretenses to force him out if the house. He lives first with mom, then later moves to small apartment. He visits and send support checks regularly. He is working at a local supermarket during the evenings, plus a warehouse.
Wife and children lose their apartment for nonpayment of rent. She begs him for help because they are living in her car. He gives her $3000 to secure an apartment, which she proceeds to spend on booze and partying. She claims she lost the money. Husband does not believe her story. CPS removes the children and places them in foster care.
I don't know exactly when this incident occurred, but the wife slept with the husband's son from his first marriage when both were intoxicated. Still, no excuse. The son informed his paternal grandmother, who informed the young man's father. He said that from that point on, he could never consider taking her back.
2005: Legal separation stipulating support and visitation filed.
2005/2006 (not 100% sure which: this is my best guess): He starts seeing a co-worker. They move in together. Wife and her OM move in downstairs in 1st floor apartment. One night, she barges into the apartment demanding money for cell phone. Her OM, who is abusive, later beats her up. To retaliate against husband for refusing to give her money, she has HIM arrested for domestic violence. Officer talks to husband, who confirms that she barged into his home earlier that day. Both are arrested.
The next morning in court, the wife admits to the judge that she fabricated the story about his being the perpetrator of the abuse. Charges are dismissed and he goes home.
Some time after this, he gets custody of his daughter, with the assistance of CPS. They decided he could provide a more stable environment. He said the only reason he got his daughter was because he had a girlfriend (co-worker) and her daughter living with him. I called his bluff and said that he would have gotten custody regardless. Just as it would be illegal to deny a fit mother custody of her teenage son, it would be wrong to deny a good father custody of his teen daughter. He complains that she was still married and lied about it (her handicapped child died at age 11), but I told him he was no better. I also told him that the past cannot be changed, but we can resolve not to repeat it. Maturity requires us to acknowledge the wrongs we have done and make amends wherever possible.
Daughter lives with him for a few months. He also visits son, who lives on a farm in nearby village. Foster mother treats him well and teaches him to ride horses.
2006: Divorce final.
He and live-in break up. She reconciles with her husband. Best outcome for her, her husband, and their daughter. Wish I could put clapping hands here for emphasis.
Ex-wife virtually stalks him at work, causing loud scenes and demanding money. He gets fired, even though he told he repeatedly not to go to his work site unless she was shopping for groceries there.
He has a few dating relationships. Ex-wife interferes and runs them off. Meanwhile, she is still living with the OM.
2009 or so: He decides to take a break from dating to reflect on his patterns and how his choices led him to point where he is. He maintains a relationship with his son and daughter, visiting them at their places and encouraging them to see him as often as they wish. I find it telling that they run to him, not their mother, when they have problems and need solutions.
2010: We meet, but do not date. (He tells me he remembers seeing me a few years earlier with my kids on a church van, but I don't recall; I wasn't noticing him then. I will always consider 2010 as the year I met him.) We simply engage in conversation whenever we encounter one another: in library, coffee shop, or bus terminal. I admit I was attracted to him.
2011: We become Facebook friends and begin talking on phone.
June 2012: We start dating.His kids are 24, 23, 21, and 19 by this time. He proposes some time later and I accept.
July 2012: Daughter announces she is pregnant.
September 2012: Older son becomes father of a son.
January 2013: We attend daughter's baby shower at her request, choosing to be civilized toward the ex-wife, who is hosting.
March 2013: Daughter give birth to her first child. We go to the hospital to visit several times.
May 2013: We are married.
July 2013: Son and his (now ex) girlfriend have daughter.
September 2013: Daughter throws first tantrum and blocks us both from Facebook. She resumes communication a few months later.
December 2013: Daughter issues last-minute invitation for us to spend Christmas at her house. She says her mom and mom's new boyfriend will pick up her dad, my 12 year old son, and me, but he says no. Later, the daughter admits that the mother and her boyfriend both got drunk and ended up sleeping at her place overnight. My son and I would have been stranded in an intolerable situation, and because he is in foster care, I would have been held responsible for putting him in that environment.
March 2014: We are invited to his grandson's birthday party at a Chuck E. Cheese type facility, arranged by the daughter's lesbian partner. Problem is there is no public transportation in that area, and nobody is willing to bring us. We send a gift. She cuts off communication again.
Does this help? I would also like to hear from Dr. Harley regarding this issue and think he could help my DH and me tremendously. I think you're right about the youngest daughter's anger issues. I, too, would feel rejected and hurt if I were bounced from foster home to foster home and felt I didn't have a place to call my own. The difference is that I internalize pain instead of fighting and making demands.

I have been called every curse word in the book by my stepdaughter. She flip-flops between nice and nasty. Another issue is that when she resumes communication, her father treats her verbal abuse like it never happened.

BrainHurts, thank you. I have e-mailed Joyce Harley regarding this situation.

I'd cut someone out of my life that treated me that way. Life's too short.

Be careful that you're not sacrificing by continuing a relationship with her. It will wear on your marriage.

Celtic, whoah. Of course her anger is unacceptable. And I was talking about his past and her probable current assumption when I said led by the nose. She won't have any earthly idea what poja is.

Every time he demonstrates good poja and the type of behaviour she should look forward to in a husband she's going to misunderstand it as being led by the nose.

I was simply suggesting you contact Dr H because her behaviour is only going to continue.

Not because it's acceptable but because it's her pattern.

There was one really good show when he was giving advice regarding behaviour towards a wayward if you are their parents. I don't remember the details but it was very firm, gentle and with some very clever key phrases.

Thank you all. Going to an appointment now. Wishing all peace and blessings.

I appreciate having this forum as a safe space.

You're welcome. Let us know when you hear back from there.

The advice I received was to continue following POJA, which DH and I did regarding his son. When it comes to his daughter's cruelty, confronting her has to be a mutual decision and cannot be demanded.

Even seeing her also has to be an enthusiastic agreement and cannot be demanded.

Yes, that's correct, Prisca.

Was this your question to Dr. Harley?

Radio Clip of CelticMuse's question