Eddie, you need to get a GSR meter, like Dr. Harley describes here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8122_neg.html

But it's the same problem.

If you understand that talking about one type of abuse - an affair - is counterproductive, then surely you must see the same thing applies to anger.

Why do something dreadful and keep harping on about it?

The MB advice would be to not do, or talk about negative experiences. It keeps the mind set alive. It won't help in the slightest.

Have you tried proper anger management techniques and feedback devices?

I like it. I like it a lot. It was pretty unreasonable of me to say that I don't want to try mental exercises. They directly address the problem.

I complain about my wife letting emotion drive her actions instead of reason, and here I am doing the same thing. the resonable thing to do is train my brain to not be angry.

It's such a difficult road, this recovery. I really hope we can get there.

You can't afford to be angry while your W is in an affair, but you can't afford to avoid the real problem either - her affair.

Even if your anger were to disappear overnight the affair would still be there.

You have to be cool and calm and unapologetic while you dismantle it.

Interesting. I'd never heard of this. I will definitely research this further.

Thanks Markos. Thank you everyone, in fact. I've got some new tools to work with now.

I would advise to closely look at what Dr. Harley says about therapy and how his approach differs from many popular approaches to psychology.

You may find that a lot of what you are doing in therapy is incompatible with MB and counter productive to your personal recovery. You don't want to mix and match MB and other stuff. The veterans here can attest to that.

Eddie,
Dr. Harley recommends getting a GSR Meter and learning to relax in the face of frustration. This will help you immensely.

From here

You and me both, Eddie! Fortunately Dr. Harley finally got through to me.


You should hear the wonderful things Dr. Harley has to say about this on the radio. You will be so much more intelligent and creative and capable of solving difficult problems when your brain is trained. It worked for Dr. Harley, former angry guy. It worked for me. It can work for you.

Allowing yourself to have an outlet only reinforces the anger. Your anger will become more intense over time, and you will eventually start lashing out at your wife.

The idea that one must vent anger in some way is a myth. It will not kill you to keep it all inside. No one has exploded yet.

Do not allow yourself an outlet.

The key is to retrain your brain and how you react.

Ok, then stop talking about your anger and your resentment. I would focus on the price of tea in China, because it will be much more productive to your recovery.

As far as "trust," we can help you with that. Don't trust anything you can't see. Your wife should be so transparent that it will impossible for her to cheat. That will create trust. [along with some serious and sophisticated snooping]

Oh I missed the trust thing.

Please don't tell us the therapist is telling you to trust a cheating wife!

Do NOT trust her while some guy is trying to make her his. Phenomenally uncaring.

Yes she is less likely to be angry at you if you go hide in a therapists office, not interfering in the A - but you are needed in the real world right now.

EH,

It will take at least two years to recover, so accept that you are in the early stages. The fact that you know most of the details puts you in a position to eventually recover.

Has all the affair artifacts been thrown out, clothing she wore, gifts OM gave her, ticket stubs, your bed/couch if they were in it. Cars might need to be sold.

Gamma

Have you listened to these clips from Dr. Harley?

Dr. Harley on How to Deal with Triggers

I've been away from here for a while, but looking for some more direction. Lately I've been thinking I want to ask WW for a divorce. It's been 7 months since I discovered the affair, and over two since last known contact. Though I'll never really know for certain if they are still in contact or not, I have seen no evidence of any contact for the last two months, and neither has OMW. WW is still in the fog, but I really question how long I can wait for her to come out of it.

We are little more than friends and partners in parenting right now. We get along fine together, and care for each other's well being, but there's still no intimacy and very little physical affection. As a result, I can't help but I still harbor resentment for what WW and OM have done. The longer I wait without my wife's participation in a loving relationship, the more time I spend analyzing how we got to this point, and the more I am finding that this was almost entirely her fault. She solves her problems by running away, ignoring the issue, or finding the easiest solution for her personally. I see evidence in this with more that just the affair. This does not help me rid myself of said resentment. I really am guilty of nothing but working too much in order to provide the best life for my new family.

I do not believe she is capable of the work involved to maintain a long term loving relationship. She abandoned our emotional relationship and started an affair just months after our daughter's birth, because as she says "Marriage wasn't what she expected it to be." When I ask her what she expected it to be, she says she doesn't know. When I ask her what more I can do, or what I should be focusing on to make her happy, she says she can't tell me specifically. She uses the word "chemistry" all the time. To her, it's just a feeling, not a process, and I can't convince her otherwise.

I truly believe that she has no idea what makes her happy, she only knows whether or not she is happy at that particular moment. Right now, neither of us are happy. I'm willing to put in all the work necessary to salvage this marriage, but I'm not sure that it is salvageable because she doesn't feel that true love requires effort.

So, with all this in mind, I'm wondering if I shouldn't move on and try to find happiness with someone who has a more practical view of how to achieve and maintain happiness. We still at least care about each other right now, and like it or not, she will always be in my life, since we have a child together. But whatever love and respect I do have left for her is fading.

I'm rambling now, so I'll stop. I guess the short version of this post is, how do I know when it's time to throw in the towel? I'm not looking for a time frame here, I know Dr. Harley says 6-12 months, so I'm really already in the middle of that threshold. I'm looking for advice determining whether or not my wife is capable of doing the work necessary to recover, because I know that right now she's not willing to do it.

Eddie

Dr. Harley recommends 6 months to 2 years for men, but to reevaluate when necessary. If it goes past 2 years, there really isn't much more point in chasing a dream outcome.

You don't have to "Ask" your Wife for a divorce.

If you truly want one, you just have your attorney file the proper paperwork and have her served by the sherriff or service processor.

LTL

Sorry, ask was the wrong word. But I would still tell her face to face. It's clear to me now that it's more than just the affair. My wife is extremely selfish and immature emotionally, and I'm not sure that can be changed.

And you are extremely disrespectful.

Do not threaten divorce. If you're going to do it, just do it.

Eddie, I have been reading through your story and find many similarities with mine. I don't want to hijack your thread, but was wondering what kind of phone she had and what program you used to recover messages. My wife has/had an iphone and I was able to recover some fragments of deleted messages but not everything. Thanks.

She has an iphone. I convinced her to backup her phone to the computer and grabbed the data from there. There are any number of $20 apps that will read iphone backups. a google search will yield plenty of options. I also used a $100 gps device stashed away in her car to track her driving habits

Now, I just make her show me her phone, plus I monitor the phone bill text and data records for suspicious activity. I've also blocked facetime from my home wifi because they used that frequently, and confirm her schedule and travel destinations regulary. None of these will be able to fully prevent contact, but the goal is to make it as difficult as possible.

Just remember, step one is to end the affair, and make sure it's over. That will likely take time, and a lot of effort. Until that happens, you can't even begin to recover. Even afterwards, you may not. My marriage is likely over, even though my wife is starting to come around. but the process has led me to some realizations about my spouse that have changed my mind about her ability to commit.

It may seen like that means this plan failed, but it didn't. It was successful in helping me end the affair, and in realizing the kind of person my wife truly is. There is real value in that.

Keep listening to the people on this site. They may not always tell you what you want to hear, but their advice is usually valuable and correct, especially when it comes to the steps necessary to remove OM from your life.

Eddie