Protect yourself. She will at some moment come back again. What will you do? Forgive her because she will always have a spot in your heart and for 16 years it has been your habit to take her back again.

Will you take her back? She knows you probably will, because you always did and she got away with it. Prepare for that moment, design a plan and stick to that plan. That plan could be to finalize the divorce and never have contact with her again. Or it could be to have a marriage following Dr. Harley's advice.

Either way, be prepared for her to come back and don't let your emotions decide what to do, because your emotions will take her back within a second and without accountability.

You might want to be in Plan B.
That way you will not be taking her back, because she has no way of directly contacting you.

how to correctly plan B

Thanks goody2shoes. That is a very good question and you are right, without a plan, I probably would end up taking her back immediately, no questions asked (though I do not think her coming back is likely). Emotions are crazy and throw all objectivity out the window which is what you are getting at.

I am finishing up renters, freeloaders and buyers now and then on to his needs, her needs. Based on these, I think I can plan one way or the other. But I will have a plan for that situation.

She will always have a way of being able to get into direct contact with me. There are way way too many interconnected pieces.

The more I dig into the guy I suspect she is seeing the scarier it gets. Lengthy arrest record, relatively young with no college degree (not that that should matter but I thought it did to her). Working on finding out for sure but in the meantime I have not been talking to her.

Waywards often "affair down," so don't be surprised if this ex con is her affair partner.

I just started reading "His Needs, Her Needs". I have many of the same thoughts as the books, they just were not clearly articulated in my head very clearly. Anyway, I was happy to see that "affection" was the first emotional need discussed. I thought this might be a problem area for me. After reading the first half of the chapter, I do not think I was as poor in this area as I first thought. Of course I could have been better, but I actually wonder if this was an emotional need of hers that was lacking. But as I was reading the chapter, something unexpected happened. I began thinking about my need for affection. Then it hit me, this is one of my top 5 emotional needs and it was not being met. I know that because I can distinctly remember the feeling anytime I received a hug, hand holding, "I love you" text message or a quick love note. It was abnormal, but I felt incredibly good when it happened (massive love bank deposits I guess). I was the one always doing this stuff. This lack of affection and my need for it may well have contributed to our 'chemistry' issues. I know more affection could not have hurt at the very least. Just a very insightful realization from my perspective because if I were to simply pick my top 5 emotional needs, I do not think it would have made the list (I need to take that questionnaire). So I was missing something that I did not even really realize I was missing!

I would really love to give her these two books. What are your thoughts on that? Not because I think it will change anything between us, but I really do not want to see her in the same cycle again. She has a great heart and I care deeply for her. I have not talked to her in several weeks.

Did you establish if there's an affair? If there's an affair, giving her the books won't change a thing. People having an affair are like people on alcohol. They can't think logically and it is futile to talk with them.

You started this thread on the "divorce" forum. Did she file for divorce yet?

You said earlier that you don't want to hire a PI because you fear her reaction after exposure and you don't want a lawyer. If she's having an affair, she is not the woman you know, but invasion of the bodysnatchers alien. If she is having an affair and if she wants a divorce, you may need a lawyer anyway. Be prepared for someone you have known for 25 years to turn into a complete stranger.

What also might be the case, depression. Depression can cause loss of feelings and her sudden change.

Either way, it is important to find out why she left so suddenly, it is not normal behaviour and because she moved out within two weeks, the first thing that comes to my mind is an affair.

No, we have not filed for divorce yet. I started this thread before I understood the site better. Maybe it should be moved. I don't know. I am sure it is heading down that path though.

I am not sure if she is having an affair or not, obviously something is going on. I have suspicions but have not 100% verified them. We already talked about getting lawyers and she says she did not want that. Though I do agree that she has been invaded by aliens.

She left so suddenly because this is what she does. She is very impulsive sometimes, it's crazy. In her mind (I believe anyway), I am just like any other ex-boyfriend. This is how she treats them. I have been through it before and seen her do it to others before. Break up and that is it. Marriage did not change her thinking in this regard sadly. She even referred to it as a 'break up' in one conversation and I was completely thrown back.

The motive for giving her these books really does not have anything to do with our relationship. I have given up on that and even if she came back I think I would be going through this again in a few years (though it would be hard to resist). The motive is for her future, to try and get her to see things so that she can make a change. The same thing will happen with her with someone else. I really want her to be happy and learn from her past relationships.

I am just trying to improve myself at the moment and learn from this. I do not want to repeat the same mistakes again. I think we should be able to handle this very amicably without lawyers. I would be in a much better position without them.

There's a lot I don't understand about your situation (and to be frank, your lack of action). She walks away and you do absolutely nothing. Don't you want to know why she wants out?

I used to have a cat and this cat once cought a mouse. Everytime the mouse moved, the cat slapped it a bit and the mouse was sort of stunned fore a short time. After this had repeated for five, six times, the mouse walked past "arms length", the cat couldn't reach the mouse without getting up. That effort apparently was too much for the cat and the mouse, still dizzy, walked (it didn't run, but slowly walked) away.
I could understand why my cat didn't chase the mouse, as it had cought a rabbit the night before. I cannot understand why you don't even investigate or try to save your marriage.

In my opinion, the best reason to give her the book is not for her to implement it in her next relationship. The reason to give her this book is to fight for your marriage applying MB principles together (and might be rewarded with the best marriage ever). You have the best strategy to make a marriage work right in your hands and you want to give it to your wife so she can learn from it for her next relationship? After all, if you think she can learn from the book in her future, why couldn't she learn just that for your future together?

Maybe it would be best to email your situation to MB radio, Dr. Harley is far more experienced on this subject than I am.

Thanks for the response.

Did you read the entire thread? Most of the advice I received was not to try and save this. It is a 2 year marriage with no children with someone who clearly does not have the same views on marriage as I do. Someone who thinks things should just come 'naturally'. Do you know how hard it is for me to not fight for this? I literally have to focus my energy on not doing anything as weird as that sounds. It is very hard to do that. She is all I have wanted since I was a teenager.

In her words, why she wanted out is because we are too much 'like roommates'. She says that I am a great husband but there is no 'chemistry'. Like everyone said this is probably code for I am into someone else and I tend to agree. I tried to get her to stay, I was willing to do whatever to try and work things through. She said there was nothing to be done about it. I have gone through this same thing (minus marriage) in the past with her, there is only so much someone can take. I absolutely want to stay married to her but at the same time I want someone to love me back the same way and hopefully start a family. I think if we could implement these principles then we very well could have the best marriage ever but it seems like such a very high hill to climb. Does that make some sense as to why I am not chasing? I mean it does in my head but I can very easily be persuaded to go the other way.

Her family history is a mess as well. I don't know if that plays into her mind set or not. Her sister cheated on her fiance and father of their children several times with different men. Her aunt was married but had an affair with her own sisters husband. They eventually got married but then she had another affair. All of her four aunts have been divorced at least once. Her parents seem to be pretty stable though.

I could try investigating some more. I just think it is going to take her so long to digest all of this that it is probably too late for us. Maybe I am wrong though, I don't really know.

I did read the entire thread. If she were just a girlfriend, letting her go and do nothing probably would be best.

Dr. Harley has just as many cheaters in his family as your wife. If anyone was born to be a cheater, it is Dr. Harley himself. That's why you should email Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com, you might be invited to be on the radio show and receive direct advice from Dr. Harley.

You share a 25 year history, you have a very strong connection with her family. Not only is it nearly impossible to avoid her in your future, habits engraved neural pathways in your brain and she has become habit of yours.
If your marriage ends in divorce and you find a new love, contact with previous lovers is not recommended. Lots of affairs get started when one spouse meets an old flame. Even after 20 or so years, old simmering feelings tend to flare up again.

In my opinion, it would be best for you to take control. First answer the question wether there is an affair or not. If she is having an affair, you should not believe a word she's saying (remember the alien). Her mentioning the roommate situation and lack of 'chemistry' is a strong indication of an affair. If there is an affair, I strongly advise to look for legal advice. An adulterer will not have your best interest in mind when filing for divorce (if your interest would be considered, there would not be an affair). Also, if she's having an affair, it would be easier for you to fall out of love if you want to divorce and move on. Few things empty your lovebank as quick as betrayal and deceit. It is in your best interest to know what is going on, even if you want to divorce.

If she isn't having an affair, then find out if there is a possibility the MB program works for you. If the answer is "no", get ready for a future without her. And as I mentioned, that will be incredibly difficult because your lives are hard to seperate. You will be triggered to think of happy times with her often, even if you find a new love. If you go that route, you owe it to your new love to eliminate as many triggers as possible. She will always be a threat to any future relationship.

A lost love contacted me again after his wife got pregnant and he was offered a company car of the same make as my car. This trigger was enough to rekindle an old flame. Your environment is full of triggers. How will you protect a future relationship against your habit of loving her?

You are in need of a plan and you need to take control. Don't wait for her to act, investigate, decide what you want and make a solid plan how you are going to achieve that. It won't be easy, given the fact that your brain is programmed to accomodate her. Please email the good doctor for advice. You really need it.

wow... Can't say I disagree with anything you said there. I know that if this ends, I will always be vulnerable to her returning. I will have to take serious steps to avoid that.

I do need a plan and to take control. Maybe I will craft an email to the Dr.

Thanks again... I needed that post right about now to snap out of it.

The bottom line is that ALL of her comments and actions point to an affair.

For your own peace of mind, if you still truly love her, or the person you fondly remember who she used to be when she was with you, is to full force investigate by ANY MEANS possible, to find out about the affair. I believe there is one and so does your gut instinct.

Then you follow the Exposure instructions to the letter and be a safe loving Husband knowing and offering a plan for a much better Marriage than either of you knew was possible.

Have you addressed any or all of her complaints about you?

While investigating and fighting the affair, you still MUST improve on your weak points that she was turned off by.

Also, at the same time, you do not create ANY Love Busters..... At All.

And, do not be the weak depressive sniveling husband that is too pathetic to even consider going back to.

What do YOU want to do?

LTL

It is hard to address her concerns without her being here. I cannot go through all the emotional needs with her at the moment and see where I was coming up short. She said I am great husband and she knows she is going to regret this. Her only complaints were that we became 'roommates' and the 'lack of chemistry'. Like I said before, I begged her to give it more of chance so we could work on these things. I thought they were fixable if we both wanted to fix it. She said it should just be natural and if it is not there, then it is not there. Of course after reading His Needs, Her Needs and I am working on areas that I *think* I was deficient in so that I am better in my next relationship (ie intimate conversation..... I was terrible at that for sure). That has been eye opening for me.

I do not think that I am being a weak, depressive husband. I feel pretty good, I am up beat. I gym and run almost every single day.

I will investigate but am not sure if I will go through exposure regardless of what I find. I love her very much but cannot keep dealing with this. I think she is just too much into the freeloader mindset.

Hi Pinnacle06,
I am sorry that you are going to a tough time. I can certainly relate in your situation. It is definitely not easy. My husband and I have been married for 12 years out of our 16 years being together. In May 2010 he told me he was unhappy with our marriage due to our non stop arguments. We went counseling then six months he moved back. Then in the Summer of 2013 we sought counseling again due to my anxiety and our arguments didn't improve. To make matters worse, his mom end up having to live with us due to her mental illness which it didn't help our marriage.
Just a week ago, he told me he has checked out of our marriage long time ago and the counseling was just buying time. Although I don't the divorce I agreed because him and I do need to work on our own problems. Also, I have prayed to God that in order for me to not have to deal with my monster-in-law is to divorce my husband then I would do it on the circumstances God will reunite my husband and I after she is either in some nursing home or dead. Monster-in-law is very intrusive between me and my husband and our children. She has attempted many times to take control of our house. She is a peeping Tom so I have to always watch what say in my own house just in case she is hiding around the corner in the dark. She hides my stuff around the house and tells me if I want them to ask her for it!
Pinnacle, instead of you going to her, why not let her come to you? I know it's easier said then done. Have her come to you hen she is ready to talk to you without feeling the pressuring from you. During this break, try focusing on working on your flaws and relearn about yourself.
My husband and I have three children together so we will stay in touch but we've also agreed that we want to stay in touch regardless of being for the children. I personally want to keep our friendship because I don't want to be bitter with animosity and sabotage something that there could be possibility of us rekindling our love. We still love each other very much, we just drifted apart and truth be told we were forced to be parents at the age of 20 and 23 and never really learn how to be spouses to each other. So the silver lining of this divorce I for us to relearn about ourselves in order to truly learn about each other.
I do wish you the best as you g through this tough times. I am not a religious person, more spiritual so I pray a lot for His guidance. Having a positive attitude also help to grieve through the process.
I am here to talk if you need it. Take care.

babylove, do you want help in saving your own marriage? We have turned around much, much worse than yours by teaching spouses how to break bad marriage habits. It sounds like you need all the help you can get for your own marriage. Not sure what you have to offer pinnacle.

that is certainly a strange bump... I think my thread was pretty buried at this point..

"Pinnacle, instead of you going to her, why not let her come to you? I know it's easier said then done. Have her come to you hen she is ready to talk to you without feeling the pressuring from you. During this break, try focusing on working on your flaws and relearn about yourself."

That is exactly what I am doing

Is was wondering how you were doing, saw you online a couple of times without an update. Is there any contact between you and your wife/has she filed for divorce? Have you established wether or not a third party is involved?

Hi goody2shoes,

Nope, no contact in over a month. When I say no contact, I mean absolutely no contact. She has not filed as of yet. I will wait until the new year and then re-evaluate if she does not do it in the mean time. I am working in myself and my flaws at the moment. Doing a lot of reflecting.

I am not sure if there is another party involved or not but do not have a desire to find out. I am in a real good place right now and do not want to back track. Since I do not think I am technically following the MB philosophy on this, I do not post much, just lurk.

BUT.... I have found the books very useful and I will follow the program in the future. I have gained tremendous insight into my wife's needs and, just important, my own. Makes me sad to know that I will never be able to talk to my wife again after all this, but it will simply not be possible.