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Hi All
To answer some of the above:
1. Yes the exposure has been done in a way that tells people why I am contacting them ie to save our marriage and family because despite all of this I am madly in love with her.
2. I also thought her initial reaction was strange and not what I was expecting having read other stories on this site. I did however get the reaction following disclosure to the school mums. Her response was along the lines of "it is one thing telling my close friends but not people I barely know". I replied that I think it important that lots if people know.
3. Yes she has had lots of contact from the people I have exposed to. Emails mostly but some calls and one has already been out with her.
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James, what about:
1. workplace exposure
2. exposure to your children
3. exposure to the OM's family and friends?
These are all key exposures that can't be skipped.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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1 workplace is done. The head of the department has already contacted me. I copied both her and him on it
2 no
3 not quite for the reasons mentioned before. I have however contacted his wife. She has forwarded my email (this is the email I would have sent directly) to his family. She has also given me his Facebook so I will see what is on there. She tells me she thinks disclosure to his friends will not help as she tried that already. However she thinks the work disclosure would affect him.
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James, you have to tell your children. It was hard for all of us but you will not find anyone here who was not glad they did it. Children are incredibly tuned into the relationship between their parents because their very survival depends on it. My middle child who was closest to her father and therefore the hardest to tell, literally cried with relief when I told her about the Fat Slag (I'm English).
She and her siblings had sensed the tension at home and had decided it was their fault for being too naughty. Children know, they always know. Besides, how do you think they are going to feel when they find out you exposed to everyone except them? They are going to get the 'good news' on the grapevine eventually no matter what. Far better for them to get the correct version of the story from you. If you need help with the phrasing, we can give you that.
3 adult children
Divorced - he was a serial adulterer
Now remarried, thank you MB
(formerly lied_to_again)
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1 workplace is done. The head of the department has already contacted me. I copied both her and him on it Good job! The main reason that children should be told about the affair is that it is in their best interest to know the truth. Children are not made happy or secure by being told lies and illusions about their lives. Be assured if you don't tell them the truth, your wife will tell them lies and will possibly introduce them to her boyfriend. Dr. Bill Harley is a clinical psychologist and here is what he says about telling your children: The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults. Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery. The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight. Q. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
A. Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse). My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside. 3 not quite for the reasons mentioned before. I have however contacted his wife. She has forwarded my email (this is the email I would have sent directly) to his family. She has also given me his Facebook so I will see what is on there. She tells me she thinks disclosure to his friends will not help as she tried that already. However she thinks the work disclosure would affect him. Thanks for answering. I would strongly encourage you to expose to his family and friends on Facebook using the approach we suggest here. This is a very effective way of running a cheater off by causing conflict in the affair. When you expose to them, you are asking them to use their influence to persuade him to leave your wife alone. You have no way of knowing what or IF the OM's wife said or did, so your exposure will add some extra flame to the fire.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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1 workplace is done. The head of the department has already contacted me. I copied both her and him on it What did the HOD say?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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1 workplace is done. The head of the department has already contacted me. I copied both her and him on it
2 no
3 not quite for the reasons mentioned before. I have however contacted his wife. She has forwarded my email (this is the email I would have sent directly) to his family. She has also given me his Facebook so I will see what is on there. She tells me she thinks disclosure to his friends will not help as she tried that already. However she thinks the work disclosure would affect him. That is not a work place exposure. Exposure targets at work is the CEO and or Owner, Board of Directors, Head of Human Resources. Informing them of the work place affair and asking them to stop the affair and what steps they are going to take to accomplish that. These are the people that can bring pressure on the Dept Head to not rug sweep this work place affair.
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A quick response to that. It is very different to the US. A large number of US companies have policies that ANY work place relationships result in an immediate dismissal. That is not the case in the UK.
In any event, I was trying to ask a question as to the purpose of workplace exposure.
If the reason is that it falls into (1) disclosing for conduct purposes or (2) the same idea of exposing to as many parties as possible.
If the second, then I can see the point. However, the suggestion is to tell someone in HR and a senior line manager. That sounds more like it falls into the first category than the second.
Please don't think I am second-guessing here or suggesting the idea is wrong. I am just trying to understand the purpose.
However, I will indeed disclose to her managers as I have their email addresses. EJ, I work in a compliance/legal role for a VERY large multinational company a with large base office in the UK. I assure you that UK companies are very much concerned with workplace relationships because of 1) legal liability for sexual harassment when the relationship ends, 2) conflict of interest (this is the big one for my company) if one employee reports to or is more senior to the other employee or if their personal conduct conflicts with their work requirements - which relates directly to reason 3) if they are using company resources (email, phone, travel, expense accounts, etc.) to carry on the affair, that's theft. If allegations of this type were to come into my company, our Code of Conduct would require us to investigate and take action. In fact, in the time I have been doing this type of work (25+ years), I have seen my company terminate people for these reasons - some of them very senior people! I urge you to use the workplace exposure letter I drafted (you can find it on the Exposure thread) and send it to 1) the company Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer, 2) EVP Human Resources, 3) her direct line manager, 4) her line manager's line manager, and 5) the senior most person in her reporting line.
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She is in legal. I exposed to the general counsel. It is an effective exposure. She has already had a meeting put into her diary with HR for Monday morning. It has also been disclosed higher up the chain.
Leaving the children to one side for now, what happens next? I have already told her I require her to leave her job. As I mentioned above she is looking for a new job (albeit slowly and I intend to push that forward by getting her CV out). However, as expected her response is caveated. She needs the time to get a new good job and she can't just leave as that will ruin her chances of employment etc.
Now those explanations have some merit to them although they are not entirely correct even in a normal circumstance. But what do I do if she just refuses?
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She is in legal. I exposed to the general counsel. It is an effective exposure. She has already had a meeting put into her diary with HR for Monday morning. It has also been disclosed higher up the chain.
Leaving the children to one side for now, what happens next? I have already told her I require her to leave her job. As I mentioned above she is looking for a new job (albeit slowly and I intend to push that forward by getting her CV out). However, as expected her response is caveated. She needs the time to get a new good job and she can't just leave as that will ruin her chances of employment etc.
Now those explanations have some merit to them although they are not entirely correct even in a normal circumstance. But what do I do if she just refuses? Half measures will avail you nothing. What you should do is expose the affair properly. Expose to the director of HR, a key VP and both of their supervisors. Leaving the exposure to others only runs the risk that they don't get the truth. Otherwise, she can effectively sweep this all under the rug and keep her job. She can tell you she is "looking for a job" for the next 20 years to shut you up. Her reaction to her job situation tells me she and the OM have it all under control due to your timid, trickle exposure. AS far as you know, she is friends with the general counsel and he can help her sweep this under the rug. This is why it is so important that YOU expose to several people in the organization. That way, the affair is never swept under the rug. The fact that your wife is telling you she might look for other positions at her leisure tells me they have done damage control and are in full control of the story. Expose to your children and anyone else who is left. What about the OM's family and friends? You have wasted a lot of time dragging out your exposures, when we should be discussing next steps. Dragging this out makes your exposures less effective and prevents us from helping you with next steps. Please get this done and stop skipping critical steps.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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She is in legal. I exposed to the general counsel. It is an effective exposure. She has already had a meeting put into her diary with HR for Monday morning. It has also been disclosed higher up the chain. Since you have not spoken to HR yourself, she is perfectly free to spin the story.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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She is in legal. I exposed to the general counsel. It is an effective exposure. She has already had a meeting put into her diary with HR for Monday morning. It has also been disclosed higher up the chain. From Wikipedia: In the United Kingdom a group of general counsel, called the GC100, was officially launched on 9 March 2005 and brings together the senior legal officers of more than eighty five FTSE 100 companies. The GC100 group was created in response to the increasing volume and complexity of domestic and international law and regulation which impacts on UK listed companies. The group was formed with the support of Practical Law Company which acts as its secretariat.[3]
The main objectives of the GC100 are to:
Provide a forum for practical and business focused input on key areas of legislative and policy reform common to UK listed companies.
Enable members to share best practice in relation to law, risk management, compliance and other areas of common interest.
Membership of the GC100 is by invitation only. At the AGM on the 16 January 2007 members voted in favour of extending membership to company secretaries as well as general counsel in the FTSE 100. The formal name of the GC100 is now "The Association of General Counsel and Company Secretaries of the FTSE100", although it will continue to be known as the GC100.
Mark Harding, the first chair of the GC100, has stated that the GC100 is not a campaigning body, although they work closely with the FD100 (a similar grouping of blue chip finance directors).[4]None of that sounds as if, by exposing to the general counsel, you have exposed to her line management - certainly not in the way that Brit's_Brat recommends. The general counsel does not sound like the obvious place to report that someone "in legal" is having an affair with a colleague. Its role seems to have much more to do with sharing and disseminating knowledge between law firms. And what does "it has also been disclosed higher up the chain", actually mean? To whom has it been disclosed higher up? Why are you being vague, to the point of obtuse, about this? You've come to a forum that offers Dr Harley's advice. A lot of people are taking their time to give you this advice. Are you prepared to take it?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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This BH just keeps ignoring good advice.
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The work exposure was a proper one. It went to her immediate manager and the next ie the general counsel. It also went to the head of the business unit she works in and a senior colleague in another department. I do not have any direct contact with anyone in HR.
On the leaving work question, I can't believe that it is an unusual response that she does not want to be out of a job without a new one and under a cloud of quitting without working out the notice period. I agree that in theory that could last for 20 years but that is not going to happen. The question I am asking is what do I do if she flat refuses to leave immediately?
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Sorry but quoting wikipedia about what a general counsel is is just silly. The general counsel is a very senior position
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The work exposure was a proper one. It went to her immediate manager and the next ie the general counsel. It also went to the head of the business unit she works in and a senior colleague in another department. I do not have any direct contact with anyone in HR.
On the leaving work question, I can't believe that it is an unusual response that she does not want to be out of a job without a new one and under a cloud of quitting without working out the notice period. I agree that in theory that could last for 20 years but that is not going to happen. The question I am asking is what do I do if she flat refuses to leave immediately? What you should do is expose to the Director of HR and a key VP immediately. You can send them an exposure email tonight so that he reads it before he meets with your wife. Your wife's response is indicative of someone who knows she is in control of the story and has no intention of leaving the company.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Sorry but quoting wikipedia about what a general counsel is is just silly. The general counsel is a very senior position Your wife reports to this person? How does he/she have authority over your wife?ni am confused about why you won't just take the necessary and recommended steps given here?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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EJ,
I'm not sure I follow who you exposed to....In most companies, "the" General Counsel (as opposed to the General Counsel for a business unit who then reports in to "the" General Counsel) reports to the CEO. (I know this because I have been a lawyer for almost 30 years and interface with attorneys in other legal departments for other companies). Did you expose to a "General Counsel" for her business unit or "the" General Counsel for the entire company? I would suggest you also find out if the company has a Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer or an Ethics & Compliance Helpline and expose there. You don't have to personally know these people, you use the letter I mentioned and send it to all the people I listed including the CEO, "the" General Counsel, the Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer, the Ethics & Compliance Helpline AND the head of Human Resources for the company. I would also suggest if your WW is a lawyer and her affair partner is one of her business clients, they she has some serious conflict of interest issues - not just corporate, but also professional.
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Sorry but quoting wikipedia about what a general counsel is is just silly. Why is it silly? And - how rude!
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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**EDIT**
And yes, I also know what the general counsel is. It was exposed to THE general counsel.
Last edited by Denali; 10/12/15 07:48 AM. Reason: TOS disrespectful
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