This line of thinking is destructive to marriages, especially fragile ones that are trying to recover.

You need to build the type of marriage where you are so integrated that neither one of you could have an affair without the other knowing about it almost immediately. Snooping is a part of that.

Hope is not a plan.

I appreciate that it has been done to "your satisfaction" but BSs often times, especially BH's, tend to want to overlook some of these steps because, quite honestly, they have no clue how to recover a marriage.

Can you please actually go down through the list and tell us exactly what has and hasn't been done?

This is a step that people often want to skim over and skip over to the EN-meeting part of the program, and that doesn't work.

A wayward can be very sincere in their desire to reconcile, but if the plan is not followed to the letter, then reconciliation will fail. Desire to reconcile doesn't save marriages. Remorse doesn't save marriages. THIS PLAN does, if followed.

The road to recovery is very narrow. Don't cut corners.

If she's reading here...I'd really like to see her put in the effort, register, post and engage the forum. My wife did and it's made all the difference. We posted here together, learned the concepts, applied the concepts and we are over 10 years recovered. Besides posting here for years we actually mentor other couples through our church and lead small group studies as well.

If she's interested in how another wayward wife became a former wayward wife she might want to read some of my wife's MB posts.

Here's my wife's first thread..

Mrs. Wondering arrives at MB

After that you can click on her name and read anyone of her 6000 or so posts. It might be confusing if you do that because for a short time at the beginning, we shared the name WWWondering before I finally registered and got my own name, Mr. Wondering and that account became Mrs. Wondering Again, don't try to read them all...under her profile you can click on "topics created" to get a shorter list of just threads that she started on MB over the years.

I challenge you to give MB at least 100 posts. The posters here may push your buttons at first but we have your husband, your children, your marriage and your best interests at heart. It took my wife and I both several years to think clearly on these issues. There are no quick fixes but having a plan makes all the difference.

I think the list has been done to my satisfaction. All of it.

OK, so how exactly can technical accountability be ensured? How do you prove a negative? How can I ever be certain that my wife does not have a secret email account or a burner phone that she is using to hide her activities? I do not think I can. If I ask and she is truly not doing anything, she will say no, I have no secrets. And if she has secrets? She will still say no. And the �no� will sound the same.

It is the same with credit cards and financial information. I can ask my wife if she has a "secret" credit card. If she does not have one, she is going to say no. If she has one and it is secret, she is also going to say no. The "no" in both of these cases will sound the same.

At this point snooping is detrimental to my mental health.
Especially if she is carrying on with a secret life, her method of communicating in that life would have changed. There is no way to check.

Which begs the question: is there anything a wayward spouse can do to reconcile? The point of this webpage was to recover after an affair, but right now, I do not think that there is anything a wayward spouse can do that would be enough according to what I�m reading here. (Surrounding my thread there are several whose spouses are still denying the affair and openly visiting their lovers. I read those and thought I am glad that is not me. My wife denied at first but not very long.) This webpage lists several strategies that must happen to two people to reconcile. And as I was reading through it, I thought to myself, �my wife and I have pretty much done all this. Now how do we continue our momentum and move on? I don�t want either of us to suffer anymore.� Even our marriage therapist agrees we are months ahead of where most are.

I know I seem like I am defending her, and I am. I�m defending her behavior after her affair ended. Not the affair. I hate what she did to me. It is humiliating. I feel like a failure because of it. I cannot believe that this could happen to me. I�ll never get the images I�ve imagined out of my head. Ever. How could she risk our children�s family? I go crazy thinking that there could have been more partners. (Again, just like with the email accounts and credit cards, she says no. if she�s telling the truth, it is not possible to prove that. So I
either believe her or not.)

So, here�s my plan: I'm going to have a relationship with my wife. I am going to watch what she does. We are going to enforce boundaries in our marriage. We are going to satisfy each other's needs. We are going to raise our kids. We are going to know where the other one is. I am going to watch the money. And if I see anything suspicious, I'm going to investigate by asking my wife what is going on and then go from there based on what I learn. We are starting over and doing things like they should have been done from the beginning. I am very motivated to make this work, so I am not going to overlook anything I need to do to make sure that happens.

My wife is truly sorry and has truly changed. (Or is one heck of an actress.) She put herself on the wrong path and now she wants to be back. Everything she has done indicates her sincerity. She aggressively pursues my love and affection in a way that I do not think she could fake. If the standards of what is required in these situations are higher than what she is done, there would be no hope for almost anyone and the advice to everyone should be: divorce immediately without prejudice.

The divorce laws in my state and the judges in my county are both very hard on what my wife did. I likely could have divorced her under very favorable conditions for me. I chose not too because I love her and as long as she wanted to be with me I was going to give us a chance. I've never regretted that for a second. Things have been so wonderful I thank God everyday I did not divorce my wife. Now, I just want to move on.

Polygraph.
Did you read the article on just compensation? The wayward spouse can make sure the marriage after the affair is better than before. If you follow the plan of surviving an affair, you will have an affair proof marriage. Also, in time, you will trust your wife again.

Polygraph? Are you serious? Is that even offered anywhere?

Yes I read it. Just Compensation is has been offered. She's given me what I wanted. This is why I am somewhat shocked that no one replying to me thinks it is enough. Nothing my wife is doing right now indicates there is any problem whatsoever. No one looking at our marriage right now would ever conclude there was any ongoing concern.

She's ended it. She's ended anything that could remotely be associated with the affair. She's eager to fireproof the marriage and I really don't think it will ever happen again.

Again, I came here because I wanted some words about how someday she could be restored. That's what I want. If I didn't, I'd kick her to the street.

Huh?

There is a process to this. We cannot tell you that what your W is doing is "enough" unless you answer our questions which for some reason you don't want to do.

And nobody is going to tell you to cut corners such as snooping because you have demonstrated that your W is "doing enough".

That is entirely beside the point. There is a process to rebuilding and recovering your M after an A and it will take weeks, months and sometimes even years.

To try to look at it in such a black and white way is going to only lead you to disappointement. Sorry to say...

The affair ended in august, it will take more than two months to restore your marriage and turn it into a fantastic romantic marriage. If you break a leg, you won't be able to run a marathon in two months. Your marriage has been hurt bad and needs time to heal. So do you and so does your wife.

If you are following every item on the EP checklist, then you are well on your way to eliminating a SSL and IB - since your W and you both shouldn't have much opportunity to have a secret email account etc.

Again, you keep telling us that this has been done to your "satisfaction" instead of just telling us yes or no down through the list and then posting these types of questions which is a bit of a red flag that corners are being cut.

Here's the thing. It's not about telling you that your W is doing everything perfectly and poof you have nothing to worry about.

Your W was leading a SSL (which goes hand in hand with being dishonest) for a minimum of 7 mos. That kind of dishonesty and not wanting accountability can become (and often does) a BAD HABIT for a WS that will take time to change. And even a WS who seemingly makes changes can backslide.

So what do you do? You follow this program step by step and don't cut ANY corners. And don't worry about what we think about your W or any WS. That's not what it's about.

That cannot be possible if you have affair proofed your marriage. It sounds like there are many gaps here and I am warnign you that those gaps should be closed. The value in snooping is that you can save your marriage if something is going on behind the scenes.


If that is the case, then you should do a better job of snooping. If there are dark spots in her day, those should be eliminated. Your lives should be so transparent that it wouold be impossible to carry on a secret second life.


I gotcha. Please read my comments.


Unfortunately, hope is not a plan. Speculation and guessing will be nerve racking and inconclusive. You will never be able to detect it based on behavior. Believe me, cheaters become more and more experienced at this. She can fool you if she wants to.

My friend, I am very concerned for you and I would strongly suggest you tighten this up. You have no real plan to affair proof your marriage. I can see you are on the right path for sure, but there are many troubling gaps.

I am worried about this use of qualifier.

The program isn't designed that way, that you can apply the principles "to the satisfaction" of the BS.

They are actually pretty black and white and apply to everyone the same way.

Why do you think we think it is not enough? It is because, by your own admission, there are still huge gaps where she CAN cheat if she wants and you wouldn't be the wiser. Instead of closing those gaps with either transparency or snooping, you tell us you want to rely on hope and instincts. Neither of which will protect a marriage.


We want that too!! That is why we post here day and day out helping others save their marriages. We very dearly want you to save your marriage. AS such, we tell people when there are gaps in their plan.

I spoke to that in my post, but I don't know if you saw it or not.


Absolutely - posters here are telling you exactly what will work to get you what you are asking about. What they are telling you has worked. They have seen scores of people follow it and recover - and thousands of people not follow it and not recover. This is all resting on the advice and experience of Dr. Harley, who has decades of experience specializing in infidelity recovery. If you would like to know how your wife can recover, then you should listen to those who have been there.

Here is what I said, that answers your question, that I'm not sure if you saw or not.

You can't do anything if you are determined that you can't do anything.

Somehow, markos and I, and countless other couples who follow this program, are able to build an integrated marriage where a secret second life is IMPOSSIBLE. If we can do it, so can you. There's a plan here to do it. People are sharing the plan, but you can't hear the plan because you're so busy telling people "I can't."

Sure there is. Follow the plan.

I am a former wayward wife. I followed the plan. My marriage is wonderful AND AFFAIR PROOF as a result.

I strongly disagree. I don't see anything here besides the typical BH who is almost too eager to jump over the essential steps of affair proofing the marriage.

Where you are is very typical. And unless you step up your efforts, you're going to crash and burn. It is not too uncommon for a couple who has neglected to affair proof the marriage to come back in a few years with news of a new affair.

Your marriage is far from being affair proof.

Have you seen this and listened to the radio clips in here?
False Recovery-Need Voices of Experience

I guess I'm stupid because I'm not seeing what part of the checklist I've missed.

Again I liked this website because the general advice given here matches with what my wife and I have done. It also aligns with what we discussed in counseling.

Every single thing on the list is done. (I did not email her entire Facebook friend list. Saw no point in that.).

Jason, the comments of concern are not about the checklist, but about some gaps and red flags we all see. You are free to reject or accept the advice.

Again I guess I'm just dumb. What exactly has my wife not done to give me just compensation?

She's opened up her life her phone her finances

She has no contact with the guy. She even offered that before I suggested it.

She goes no where without my knowledge.

She is in counseling herself. I am on counseling myself. We are on counseling together.

She's worked with her doctor on the medications.

She's given no resistance to any of this.

We do stuff together.

So again what gaps are there?