Idea: Ask her if she wants to move and give the marriage 100% for 6 months or a year. Since you are following MB, you will be a pleasant and fun companion. This gives you time to make massive love bank deposits.

What are you doing for Plan A today?

Prior affairs? Have you talked about that before? I don't remember reading about any other affairs for her.

You hold her accountable by insisting on EPs and making sure you tell her this is the worst and most painful experience you've ever gone through when you talk about EPs. Don't give her the impression that you are a doormat and will take her back unconditionally.

Where are you at in your custody situation?

She said she doesn't want to live with me, she doesn't know what's going to happen and she need time to grieve OM and withdrawal and that she needs to do it on her own. I said she didn't have to do it alone - she refuted.

I am prepping to move regardless at the moment, getting things started with the realtor tomorrow.

She has had several EA's over the years. This one was the worst for me especially since it was a year long and physical and that our children were involved - and the last time I told her how horrible this was for me, she came back with "but look at what you have done to me and the damage your (my) affair had."

This was the email she sent to me at about 1230

"I am emailing you to tell you the things that led me to my choice of wanting a divorce. I am disappointed in you. The things that make you who you are as a person are not what mattered. You were not there as a husband or a father through out our marriage. You were selfish. You did not help me with anything. You never listened to what I had to say or took any value in it. You did not show the love you profess that you have for me or our children. I had no sense of security from you in any aspects of our marriage. I did try I tried talking to you but my words always fell on deaf ears. I needed you to back me up I needed your support. I need you to show me kindness and love. I needed to see that you loved our children. I have never said these things to you before in this way without anger I am disappointed. I know I had my affairs and I have hurt you as well. I gave up a long time ago I didnt feel there was anything worth salvaging. It is possible we had a common marriage on top of abuse and adultry which makes our marriage more complex than that. It wasnt just about boredom or comfortability that got us where we are today but it also has to do with betrayl that was on both our parts. I dont expect a response but I did this because I had never before. I'm not even sad I'm just disappointed."

Nothing she has said here is different from anything she has said before. And since she is apparently expressing feelings, her grieving of OM may be further than I expected.

I also want to add that I did ultimately decide to allow her to return home unconditionally if she were to choose that. I maybe confusing unconditional love with accountability.

The custody.

As of right now we have agreed they stay with me. They have now for over a month. My lawyer has taken her contempt that was filed to the judge "under advisement" - essentially holding this over her head in the event of continued or repeated violations of the court order.

Lots of fog babble there. I know from experience it is very hard not to get hurt by a note like that, but that is what it is. I would avoid spending too much time dwelling on it, it will only drive you nuts. Focus on your Plan A and working on eliminating your lovebusters and practicing good conversational habits (as outlined here) . I'm not trying to be repetitive, just encouraging. My experience was that even when you know what to do, a wayward's banter can still throw you quite a bit off balance.

On unconditional love...MB doesn't support the idea of unconditional love for your spouse. I know it's a popular concept in the church today so you may hear about it there, but it is not compatible with the framework here. Dr. Harley has an excellent couple of articles about why here.

I was advised that if my ex-wife wanted to move back in, I should not agree to it unless she agreed to EPs (never was an issue in my situation).

Even if you have extended that to her already, you should definitely not act like you guys can reconcile and move forward without her agreeing to them. They are the only thing that could protect your marriage from further affairs.

If I were in your shoes, I would contact Dr. Harley again and update him on your situation since it has changed. See what he thinks about how you should proceed.

I would add that your biggest job right now is making yourself an attractive option to her, and your home a safe and welcoming place for her (meaning somewhere that is clean, homey, somewhere she feels listened to/valued/safe from AOs/etc).

The affair relationship isn't over until she's onboard with the program here, but it's probably safe to say it's at least not making her very happy. It's probably on the ropes.

You have to keep on surprising her with positive changes in your behavior towards until she decides to commit to you.

So. She has sort of "come home".

Within the past month we have been able to communicate and learn some things. Then she made a decision to go back to OM for a night - she said she didn't sleep with him, she just wanted him to hold her. I don't disbelieve her, but I wouldn't stake my life on it either. She of course blames me for her going back to him.

She finally moved from his relatives trailer. She told me she was going to stay with a coworker - but then she came here. This is the second night she has slept on the couch - almost no words between us. Her withdrawl clock was reset with the night she spent with him.

We barely speak. She made it clear that she doesn't want me to speak to her - and she acts as if I am not here. I asked her tonight how long this may last - she said "you should be happy I'm not disrespecting you by saying anything to you" (because with her clock reset she is angry with me again like the last 3 or so weeks didn't happen.

So.... She is "home". I am I'm counseling on Wednesdays and looking into Christian marriage counseling for us. Aside from that - and doing affirmative things for and toward her - I wait.

It just sucks that even though she is here, this place is no less empty. And I am even more angry at OM since he was aware of her choice nearly 2 months ago and has obviously shown that he cares nothing for my marriage even still after I asked him to back off and she told him to stop.

I pray for her to have a leap of faith in us. And I will continue on myself and our children. She says God wants her to save her marriage - but she doesn't want to because she chooses OM. Aside from wanting to vomit, I hope to be here when she's ready. Pray for her please.

I feel for you.

Hang in there.

Of course she slept with him when she went back, dont be in denial.
Of course she is angry, you blew up her fantasy.
She will say all sorts of nasty, mean fog babble at you, she will continue to lie. She is in the fog or withdrawl, so expect some very bad behavior.

She just got her clothes to stay with a co-worker.

Your in a marathon. This will take time.

Watch these with Willard and Joyce on "It's a New Day", Marriage Builders IS Christian marriage counseling:

https://www.youtube.com/user/MarriageBuilders

Tid Bits (from her own words - i understand that most of these are just her current rationals and not necessarily 100% true):

She feels guilty about that night she spent with him.

She wants to "come home" because she misses her children.

She doesn't want to be in this house.

She doesn't want to be with me (or anyone - single).

She has moments, ups and downs, of wanting to spend time with me and moments of intimacy with me (non-sexual).

She doesn't know how we will be able to move on (together), and do things with me that she did with OM.

She believes living on her own is "the way it needs to be".

She believes her affair with hie turned real and that it was unique to any other affair. She says this because they accepted each others flaws and were willing to be together forever.


Most of these she contradicted during our conversation (I did more listening than anything else). She made claims that she never accepted me for who I was and that she never loved me - and recanted those in beating around the bush terms. I understand that her emotions are all out of whack and her logic is broken. I am just posting her own words so we all know where she is. I am not taking anything she says at face value - because I still believe most of it is babble.

I remember when I first went through my loss of her last year - thoughts were clear as day one moment, and the next hour or day - those thoughts were unfathomable.

Her biggest "issue" right now - she says "why can't I just make a decision". She also said part of her wants us to get divorced so she can be with OM (out of biblical sin - he'd have to divorce his wife also) and "test" whether that could actually make it or not. Of course this is her choice and I didn't once say "don't". And i dared not try to convince her in any way that this would be a wrong decision.

She ended her affair because it was a sin. She said if we were divorced and OM was divorced she wouldn't have ended it. She runs circles around "I know I cannot be with him", and "I chose him, and don't understand why we cannot be together".

Either way - she has made a choice, Godly reason or not. To me that is foundation enough for hope.

She asked me how to get over him, and thought-stop, and how to chose me when she doesn't want to. I did not give her answers because all of my answers are perceived by her as control.

This is where we are. Oh and she is staying at her co-workers. She is fully out of the environment - however she works early in the morning and has anxiety about "passing" OM on the way to work since the must drive the same road within similar time frames.

Our best bet would be to move out of where we are asap - but she also has not made a commitment yet, and her own words does not want to make drastic changes without knowing "what's going to happen".

Stay the course and ignore all that whacked out fog babble nonsense.
It is the same exact thing we hear from every wayward, it is not special, it is not unique, it is nonsense.

Exactly, and rewriting history is what every wayward does. So as NebDane said, don't listen to her babble.

Wife and I are doing better. Not going to label a place yet, but some things I ask for guidance in with her communication.

She says she is attracted to me when I am confident. But she sees me often as weak, pathetic, and needy. - I thought I was being "careful" because i was controlling in our marriage and thought before I spoke to be sure it didn't come off that way. It seems to be backfiring. So how do I have confidence, without arrogance, and is her immediate "he's controlling me" perspective something I have any role in?

She has tried some intimacy; closeness, grazing, a rested leg or arm. Nothing yet by way of deliberate contact or sexual desire. I am okay with waiting until she is in a much better place. She says what stops her is thinking about OM at the moment she thinks about doing something to me (hand on my back, a simple hug, legs on my lap).

Our communication is amazing right now. She has made strides in her healing that I surely did not anticipate yet. I am careful not to pursue, or push, and i know I have more to work on - but I am sure I am not doing anything that will hinder us (her own words).

She sees to want to "move" in again, and she says because she wants to see the kids more. Last night she slept here in my bed while I worked - at my computer 8 feet from her.

Oh an much of that babble, and history re-writing: she has contradicted and admitted to the denial of quite a bit of it.

Be very, very careful. Many a wayward have laid a trap to get their spouse in trouble.
It seems to me to be way too soon for her to have come around that quickly. You need to have your guard up regarding her and her motives.

Confidence is attractive, so keep working it, it can be a fine line. Controlling is about manipulation, coercion, deception, lies - so at least don't do those things.

While we were talking. She had some moments, and with tears she said "I wish I hadn't moved on... I don't how to be where you are".

That felt almost as good as the "I love you's" I remember.

She says she misses him. She says she doesn't want to be with him. She says she has no feelings for me. She shows remorse with tears at my pain, the damage she caused. Minor moments of intimacy (non-sexual) remind her of him. She wants to comfort me, but has no feelings associated. She has triggers for him in a way I believe BS's are supposed to.
We went on a date today, and she became emotional because she thought it would mean something or that we could create new memories. She has tried to find reasons to stay with me, but she cannot remember anything in our past to "pull from".
She wants to be close, as she misses intimacy but she cannot get OM off her mind while we are together. I have no intention of going "all the way" even if she wanted to. I want to be sure she is in a better place healing wise before we even consider that - I anticipate months potentially.
She wants it to go away. She wishes the last year didn't happen.

I don't have any words of wisdom, but I'm following your story and rooting for you, Bill. She's going through withdrawal, which is part of the process, unfortunately. What precautions are in place to keep her from going back to him in a moment of weakness? Because it's going to start all over again if she sees him or communicates with him.