Actually I bought the books already, she just won't read them. The cost of the books isn't the problem. I even put the SAA book on her phone and on a Kindle for easier reading. She just said she is "too busy" to read them. I asked her to do the Emotional Needs questionnaire again today and she wasn't very receptive. She keeps saying she needs "time to think" and I said this material will help us frame the problems and focus, because the stuff she says matches exactly what Dr. Harley said. Still resisting though...
I believe it's her way of "getting even" because of the Exposure which deeply shamed and embarrassed her. She is still very upset by it.
She loves shopping, but she hates it when I go with her (she feels constricted). She loves exercising at the gym but all her classes are all women, and she doesn't want me to go with her.

What about going out to eat? What about a weekend getaway? What did you both love doing when you were dating?

Two votes for a getaway!

Will push for the getaway, but will have to coordinate with my MIL on that. It's still a very tough sell, she is very resistant. She's still blaming me for everything so I'm trying to use the videos and books to break through her tough "shell."
We eat out frequently but she doesn't want to leave our son with a sitter. Before we had our son, we used to go to cafes and movies a lot. We still do that but now it's always with our son. Only thing we do semi-alone is watching our son's games (4-5 hours a week sitting in our canopy). But it got rained out yesterday :-(

You could back off on asking her to read the books. I tried that with my ex H, offered him the audiotapes to listen to in the car on his commute. Instead, he was talking to his "friend" every time he got in the car.

It's probably too soon to help her understand about rebuilding and about the nature of affairs.

Doing something fun and NOT talking about the relationship or the affair, but paying attention to her, can help you to start to win her back.

I agree with Bellevue in terms of backing off on the marital recovery talk and materials. Don't push that on her right now. She's not ready. Keep making love bank deposits. Do nice things for her, look your best and make home a warm and inviting place. Be clever in terms of figuring out how you can get alone time with her. If you can go on a weekend trip, it would help A LOT. Start figuring out how to get quality childcare for your son. Sounds to me like the over emphasis on parenting has greatly contributed to the distance between you and your wife. Start figuring out how to change these patterns. Limit direct relationship talk for now. Just be loving and warm and keep inviting her.

Bring some fun into the relationship. Make jokes, be lighthearted. Let her know that staying married can be FUN. You want to build up the love so that she's excited to do the marital recovery work with you. If you push it now, it might seem patronizing from her point of view, which is a big love buster.

Good point and quite different from the other advice I've received here.
What I've been reading on this forum about "narrow window of opportunity" to save my marriage plus my natural instinct is pushing me to act and try to move toward the goal constantly.
My WW has complained that our marriage is not a project. We are doing fun things together but mostly as a family. First would be trying to get the weekend trip scheduled. It's hard because she is not open to the idea now.
I did buy her nice diamond earrings for Christmas even though she told me not to buy anything. Hopefully they will soften her up. :-)

What in the hell? WE have consistently told you to focus on attracting her back by having FUN with her while SELLING her on the program. You should be introducing her to the program NOW as much as you can. You should not force it, but you should try and sell the positive aspects to her while making your marriage fabulous.

If you feel that any of us have given you incorrect advice, please click on "notify" and the moderators will remove our posts.

According to the rules of this forum, the advice given must comply with the advice that Dr. Harley gives.


You have completely taken my advice out of context. The "narrow window of opportunity" applies to exposure and affair busting.

I have spent an inordinate amount of my free time trying to help you along and I don't appreciate being dismissed. The advice being given here has to line up with Marriage Builders, or it is removed.

Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I confused the urgency between the Exposure versus selling her on the Program.
But Bellevue and zibbles's advice seems to tell me to back off on selling her on the Program. Or am I reading it incorrectly?
I'm Confused...

The reason you should start selling her now - NOT PUSHING, I NEVER ADVISED THAT - is because she needs to see some hope on the horizon. She needs to see a picture of HOPE in her marriage with you. Otherwise, her withdrawal from the OM will just default to depression. You need to give her the hope that your marriage can be a happy, passionate relationship.

I don't expect her to react positively to your overtures right now, but you will have planted a seed that she will remember as she withdraws. As she withdraws, she will draw more and more to you if there is an attractive option.

Yes, it is a tightrope walk between selling and pushing. I will have to find the right balance between the two.

She's going to see a big difference in you and when that happens she will start to associate these pleasant changes with the program you mentioned you are following. Clearly she isn't going to automatically love it, but you will be doing things she DOES love.

Now, one of the biggest changes will be how you accept no for an answer, instead of pushing something on her. Even when it's the MB program, it's still a selfish demand if she can't say no! Nor do you drop the subject, you assertively keep working your own plan, showing rather than telling.

That's what a salesman does, he lets the product speak for itself rather than push it.

You make it sound so hard. It's basically just wooing at the end of the day.

Just be a nice guy. Demonstrate a picture of your future marriage to her. Have fun with it.

Don't expect so much from her initially.

Yes, it is very hard for me to take rejection. Probably explains why I'm not in sales :-)
On another note: I found something very disturbing a couple days ago as I looked through our house to ensure all contact with OM has ceased. I found some photocopies of three goodbye/suicide letters WW wrote 18 years ago, two months before our wedding. She wrote a short note to me, saying that I'm a strong person and that I will find a wonderful woman to marry me, it was her fault, etc. She wrote a long note to her parents apologizing for her faults and that she couldn't see a way to get out of the mess she made. She wrote a long note to OM asking him to help comfort her parents, and hoping they could be together in the next life. (She had told me she dumped him because he has to live on the other continent and OM's family rejected her).
It's 18 years ago, so I don't remember all the details. But there was a lot of stress prior to the wedding due to disagreements between the families about the wedding, to the point that we were considering calling it off. Obviously she never carried through with the suicide 18 years ago and she has seemed normal through all this time. I am not sure how serious she was about it. But she has never told me this and it appears my WW has buried a lot of dark secrets.
My question is, should I bring this up at all? I don't think to WW at this point because she is so upset about the Exposure and things. But I don't know if I should ask MIL about it? WW was very upset I did the Exposure with MIL and her cousin. I think if I asked MIL she will keep this info in confidence but I'm not sure if she will slip.
Suggestions on how I should deal with this discovery? Or should I just leave it alone? She has not seemed depressed at all during our marriage but now it appears she's very good at hiding her emotions. It's disturbing to me that she would want to keep these letters from 18 years ago.

Plan A is very hard emotionally - but it isn't at all complicated. Do nice things. Stay calm and reasonable. Not easy but very simple as cliff notes go.



I think where suicide is concerned, even hinted at; as many people should be warned/exchange information as much as possible. I'd ask MiL or other supporters for as much information as they can recollect. Find out was there any reason to take this seriously. Then just watch her closely, using spyware too. Call in the cavalry if she says anything similar today.

She probably was fine when she was not in contact or in withdrawal from him. Now your exposure makes it that much more difficult to romanticize or hype it up in private.

Other than that it's just a sign of how much groundless drama they've always generated. How much influence he can have on her even while rejecting her. If you had seen these letters sooner you probably would have known he was trouble to keep an eye out for.

Lost, yes you should bring it up to your wife. I don't see any reason to tell your MIL. One of the biggest reasons that your marriage is in this mess is because of a complete lack of radical honesty. All of these secrets have hurt your marriage in so many ways and enabled the fantasy feelings she has for the OM. Affairs thrive on secrecy. More secrets is not the solution. I would tell her that you read her letters and explain that you want to get everything out into the open. Sure, she will be angry, but if you remove the secrets, it will eventually bring you closer.

Nothing in marriage should be kept secret. Please read this article about radical honesty and you will see this is one of the big gaps in your marriage:

This has certainly proven true in your marriage. here

here

This was 18 years ago, though. She did not follow through on it.

Yes, you are preaching to the choir on Radical Honesty. I have been completely honest with WW since we've been married but it has not been reciprocated, as I'm sadly learning now. One of the key points our counselor from 17 years ago gave us was the need for complete honesty. She agreed to it as part of our reconciliation. The problem is when I ask WW about these things she clams up or denies things, even today. Not just with me, but with her mother and cousin as well. Her cousin told me she just cried and wouldn't say much when asked about her affair.
I'm just worried about the timing to talk to WW about the letters. Right now things are pretty fragile but we are civil and happy when together as a family. Would I want to introduce a big LB into the mess? She will complain about my invading her privacy. She was upset at how I gained access to her email (I have not told her how) and she is suspicious. She even stopped wearing her FitBit (thinking I'm using it to track her!) Wouldn't I further alienation and for her be on her guard if I tell her about the letters?
My wanting to talk to MIL about the letters is partly because she is an intended recipient as well, but also because she has shown she has a strong moral compass throughout this ordeal. Even though she was upset about my Exposure, she recognizes what her daughter did was very wrong and told her in no uncertain terms. WW has not been honest with her about OM until I introduced the emails to her (which is why WW is mad at me). If I confide in MIL, I'm hoping to have a stronger ally in getting WW to move forward to Recovery? Or should I do it directly with WW and face the music?
This stuff is so hard, it's making my head spin.

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No, you should not lovebust her and that is what I am advising. Being dishonest, as you are proposing, is a HUGE lovebuster and has almost completely destroyed your marriage. Don't engage in it.

I get the impression that you believe that conflict avoidance and dishonesty will help your marriage. I assure you it will not. Avoiding conflict and sneaking around with more secrets will not help your marriage. Radical honesty WILL.

As her spouse, you have a right to see and read everything she does. No spouse has a "right to privacy." That is just silly. The secrecy and the conflict avoidance needs to stop with YOU too. You can't complain about her secrecy when you don't practice honesty yourself.


Be honest with your wife about what you know and don't tell your MIL unless hyour wife agrees.

Tell your wife that you will be checking up on her becuase you have a right and need to know what she is doing. You won't give up all your resources, though, because you need that protection.