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Im new...need advice, as Ive been reading Dr Harleys Emotional Detachment for self preservation. I was wondering if anyone has experience within the Alanon recommendations from Dr. Harley . Thank you.

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Yes, I've been in Alanon for 10 years now. I was unable to restore my marriage, but emotional detachment has been a great help for me.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
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Originally Posted by InTime
Im new...need advice, as Ive been reading Dr Harleys Emotional Detachment for self preservation. I was wondering if anyone has experience within the Alanon recommendations from Dr. Harley . Thank you.

What did you read and where?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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InTime Offline OP
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Thank You, NED. I want to save this marriage if it can be saved. He is my best friend and has been for nearly 3 decades.

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InTime Offline OP
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ML, I found it today within the Alcohol, Abuse, and Infidelity section.

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Originally Posted by InTime
ML, I found it today within the Alcohol, Abuse, and Infidelity section.

That would be great if you could post the link. Thanks


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Intime, can you describe your current situation? Has your husband stopped drinking? What is the state of your marriage?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by InTime
ML, I found it today within the Alcohol, Abuse, and Infidelity section.
I think this may be the article.
Alcohol, Abuse, and Infidelity


FWW/BW (me)
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2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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This is what I came up with when I searched for emotional detachment

I, of all people, understand how the concepts of co-dependency started. I had a one-year internship in a treatment center for chemical dependency, and I owned and operated ten such centers myself. Co-dependency was something all of us addressed in marriages where one or both spouses were addicted to drugs or alcohol.

When an alcoholic is married to a loving and caring spouse, the spouse's love and care is sucked in like a black hole. It drains the caring spouse of everything they have, leaving him or her not only exhausted, but also having failed to meet their sick spouse's needs. In these cases, the non-alcoholic spouse must emotionally detach themselves or becomes emotionally destroyed.

When the 10 statements that we just considered are applied to care of an alcoholic, the answers are very different than the ones I gave. Consider them in the context of living with an alcoholic:
  1. If the "important" person is an alcoholic, what they expect is often totally unrealistic and should not be done. Their addiction causes them to suffer very negative consequences, and they expect their spouses to shield them from those consequences. It can't, and shouldn't be done. If I were married to an alcoholic, my answer to this statement would be "no."
  2. Anyone living with an alcoholic is going to be irritable and unpleasant. It can't be avoided, because the environment is so incredibly sick -- "no".
  3. If you deny an alcoholic's unrealistic request, he or she will become angry. So it's impossible to avoid their anger. Again, "no."
  4. You can't keep an alcoholic happy, because their emotional needs are sacrificed for whatever it takes to get their next drink. "No."
  5. An alcoholic is upset because his addiction is ruining him, not because of something his spouse did. It's not the spouse's fault that he's upset. "No."
  6. If you think you will gain self-esteem helping an alcoholic solve his problems, short of helping him overcome his addiction, you're not going to have any self-esteem. That's because he can't solve his problems as long as he's addicted. "No" is the answer.
  7. Talk about overextension! If you want to be really overextended and get nothing for your effort, try to take care of an alcoholic. "No."
  8. The spouses of alcoholics often try to make excuses for the alcoholism. It's called "enabling." It makes it possible to continue the addiction without suffering some of the consequences. In fact, many spouses become alcoholic themselves, just to preserve their relationship. They set aside their healthy values and ignore their normal needs just to be close to someone in the process of self-destruction. Left to their own devices they are then both destroyed. "No."
  9. When you are used to giving until it hurts, like you do in a relationship with an alcoholic, you forget about the fact that you need something in return. Answer this one "no."
  10. Alcoholics are often angry, and in order to avoid physical and verbal abuse, an alcoholic's spouse develops anxiety from the very real risk of physical and emotional harm. Unless you want to go down in flames, answer, "no."

Now it all makes sense in the context of an alcoholic marriage, and that's the context for which it was originally created. It made sense to me then, and it still does as long as it is limited to spouses of alcoholics....

The care and consideration of our spouse does not leave us emotionally disabled -- unless our spouse turns out to be an addict. When it comes to addiction in marriage, my advice is to run for cover! But in marriages that do not suffer from addiction, care and consideration is not the problem, but rather the solution to problems.

InTime, we can help you save your marriage if your H is willing to give up alcohol. But I spent 5 years here trying to save my marriage while my then-H's drinking continued. Al-anon can give you the tools to live a serene life, whether your H is drinking or not. But I have enough years ahead of me that I decided to give up on waiting for H to give up alcohol anymore. He says now, 5 years after the divorce, that he wants to "cut back" this year. But without treatment, while I wish him every success, the odds are against him. I hope your H is able to quit now while you are still by his side.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
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Originally Posted by InTime
Im new...need advice, as Ive been reading Dr Harleys Emotional Detachment for self preservation. I was wondering if anyone has experience within the Alanon recommendations from Dr. Harley . Thank you.
I was so puzzled by what you wrote that I read the Co-Dependency article (linked by NewEveryDay, below) again, carefully. My knowledge of Dr Harley's approach made me doubt that he would ever make a recommendation for emotional detachment in marriage, and neither would he make a general recommendation for how to live with an addict. Marriage Builders is about creating and maintaining terrific marriages, not enduring appalling ones.

Having re-read the article, I am very concerned that you appear to have misinterpreted its central message. You appear to have taken the article as advice from Dr H on how to survive marriage to an alcoholic. Somehow, you appear to have found an Alanon recommendation, even though there is none.

That article is in no way advising a spouse how to live with an alcoholic spouse. In fact, the article is not about addiction at all. The article is about the co-dependency movement and its dangerous approach to marriage, in which spouses are told NOT to show extraordinary care and consideration for each other. The movement argues that being affected by what one's spouse does, and seeing it as one's own responsibility to make one's spouse happy, is dangerous. As one article, quoted by Dr H, argues,

""The consequences of maintaining a co-dependent approach to life is a lot of resentment, frustration and unmet personal needs. When these feelings and needs remain unconscious, they often resurface as anxiety -- especially chronic, generalized anxiety. The long-term effects of co-dependency are enduring stress, fatigue, burnout and eventually serious physical illness.""

The point of Dr H's article is to counter this philosophy. His approach to marriage is the direct opposite of the counter-codependent approach, that advocates maintaining a detached relationship from one's spouse at all times, in order to be emotionally healthy. Dr H's evidence-based approach is that, in order for people in marriages to become emotionally healthy, they need to be actively codependent. This is the basis of his whole approach to the meeting of emotional needs.

The section bolded by NewEveryDay, in which Dr H says one must emotionally detach from an alcoholic spouse, is not a recommendation for how to live with an alcoholic spouse. This is because Dr H does not recommend living with an alcoholic spouse at all. His advice appears elsewhere in the article:

"The care and consideration of our spouse does not leave us emotionally disabled -- unless our spouse turns out to be an addict. When it comes to addiction in marriage, my advice is to run for cover! But in marriages that do not suffer from addiction, care and consideration is not the problem, but rather the solution to problems."

When it comes to addiction in marriage, his advice is to run for cover.

Dr Harley does not make recommendations for how to live with an alcoholic. He makes it very clear in his writings and in his radio show that a Marriage Builders marriage is impossible if an addiction is present. He says that the only way to survive the addiction is to separate until and unless the addiction is treated and the offending spouse remains clean.

I think it's very harmful for you to try and live by an incidental sentence about what Dr Harley says he found when he worked in addiction clinics, which was that spouses survived living with an addict by detaching. His saying that is not a recommendation for surviving a marriage. In fact, Dr Harley would never advise saving or surviving a marriage blighted by addiction. To do so would be like a child abuse hotline telling a child to survive ongoing sexual abuse by detaching. That would be completely reckless and irresponsible, and so is your interpretation of this article, and your seeking support from others who have "detached".

To underscore Dr Harley advise: "When it comes to addiction in marriage, my advice is to run for cover!"


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Agreed, SC. I did quote this too, but I like how you pulled it out in your post more. "When it comes to addiction in marriage, my advice is to run for cover!"

You can imagine have read these articles from Dr. H again and again, trying to make sense of this. It is a hard decision for a mother, deciding to divorce when that means sharing 50 percent custody with a man I couldn't bear to live with myself. My children have both suffered from depression, for the exact reasons Dr. H cites above. The folks in the articles had grown kids. I hope InTime's kids, if any, are grown. I am glad here on the site that folks get advice now to leave quickly. The 5 years I tried, my kids had no respite at all, had to live with this all the time.

You had one of those marriages that when I hear about them, I heave a sigh. My goal in life is to save all marriages, and none of them are easy. But the one you describe is one of the most difficult.

However, I would have tried to save yours because your husband did not present a physical threat to you. Granted, he was an emotional threat, capable of driving you (and your family) nuts. And there are many marriage counselors who would tell you that you did the right thing when you divorced him. But I would have tried to look at angles that you may not have considered. One of your biggest problems to overcome is his addiction to alcohol and other women. You were on the right track seeking help from Alcoholics Anonymous and AlAnon, but those excellent programs do not save marriages. In fact, it's been my experience that people in those programs tend to divorce....

In a moment of unabashed honesty, your ex-husband's Taker might tell you that no program will ever work for him, because he will never want it to work. He may tell you that he fully intends to have short relationships with other women the rest of his life. He gets tired of being with one woman, especially you, and must simply take a "vacation" once in a while. He might also tell you that he intends to drink whenever he wants, and he likes to get drunk. The two, drinking and finding another woman, usually go together. If in these most honest moments, he confesses that nothing you or anyone else does will prevent him from doing what he enjoys the most, he might just be telling you something that's been true all along: Your marriage cannot be saved.

However, if in his most honest moments he thinks he may be able to control his impulses under certain conditions, and he knows what those conditions are, then it's a matter of seeing if those conditions can be put in place.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010

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