Thanks for the shout out Letty!

You are a brave girl for taking these steps, and I'm glad to hear it is working out for you and you are happy and at peace. I am sorry to hear of the demise of another marriage, but I can relate to feeling like your spouse just doesn't feel like you are worth the effort. It is not a pleasant place to be.

So from an MB perspective, how do you explain his behavior in the end? Do you believe he was still wayward minded/foggy? It almost sounds as if he was, but I know you kept good tabs on him and practiced EP's pretty religiously.

Although you were not getting your ENs met and it makes perfect sense that you fell out of love, one would think that since he was getting his needs met and you were following UA, he would fall in love with you somewhere along the way and it just doesn't sound like he did. I guess I am wondering how your marital demise would be explained with regards to the MB program. In your opinion or anyone else's.

Anyway, it is great to hear from you. Good luck with your new single life. Don't actually have this be your last post though, come back every now and then to check in.

Last I heard from RQ she was also taking steps towards divorce, but that was awhile ago and I have heard nothing new since (we are FB friends too).

Good for you Letty! Please keep us updated. Hugs to you!

well, unwritten, i response to you the "perfect" (haha) thing happened today.

now that i am a free woman, i'm interested in meeting other folks. so i took everyone's suggestion and made a profile on the local (nz) dating site. it's well monitored, because it's so small.

anyhow, POSXWH heard i was on there (small town) and went to look at me. to do so, he had to make a profile. what did he do? he made the same exact POS profile he used to cheat on me. wasn't that lovely to come home to!? (you can see who has browsed your profile.)

so my response to you is YES, in retrospect, i don't think he ever really came of of being a wayward POS, even though i thought so because our M was soooo much better afterwards

i can't fathom being so cruel. honestly, at this point i don't think he ever really loved me (our M before the a was rocky), and despite all my good work, you simply can't make people feel what they don't feel. in fact, when i finally made the decision to leave, what i finally said to myself was: you can't change him. you can't make him do what he doesn't want to. if you are unhappy in this relationship, the only thing you can change is yourself. you have 2 options: reconcile that this is how it is and suck it up, or change YOUR life. you have the power to change your life.

anyhow, i've had my cry. and now i'm done with him. we had been friendly - going to another city for the weekend for our dd's birthday (together), helping me build stuff at my new house, etc. now i'm just...done. i don't want to see him again, period. or hear from him. or have to speak with him. i am soooo glad i finally got my head on straight enough to get strong enough to leave. i wish i hadn't waited 8 years. (and i'm super glad i put that 2 year separation clause in!) but i can't complain too much, because what we did have, thanks to MB, were the best years of our M, despite everything. and now i'm teary again.

Yikes. What a dumbnut, using the same profile. I can call him that now that you are D right

I am just wondering if some people have the personality to be eternally in the fog, no matter how you transform your marriage. For instance, serial cheaters, who are looking for that initial high and not addicted to a specific person. Even if you make the conditions impossible for them to cheat, do they still have a desire for that high. I think that would create a never-ending contrast affect of sorts that you could never live up to.

I know you are in a small town, but is it possible to go into a Plan B of sorts and not have to see/hear from/hear about/communicate in any way with your XWH? Seems like even though things are amicable, contact still takes an emotional toll.

You should start a new thread in the dating forum and keep us all updated on your journey!

Same profile, wow!!

How is your DD18 doing with the D?

well, i only have my one experience to go off, so that's probably not helpful at all. my analysis of it is that if i wasn't pushing the UA time, we didn't spend it (though we did spent a LOT - well over the 15 hours a week). and when we didn't spend it he slipped right off the radar. two years ago i thought we were madly in love again. i even asked him: when did you start loving me again? and then since then...well.

yes, i have totally plan b'd him. done, done and done. i still have a few things at the house, but i will just text when i'm coming and tell him to be out when i do, and that'll be that!

i'm so happy with my new life. i feel like a brand new person. i thought i would be sad and lonely and alone. not at all! i'm coming back to being myself: a naturally cheery person who enjoys spending time with others, and might even have a sense of humour that hasn't been beaten out of me!

unwritten, i know you have ...been having this in the back of your mind for a long time, with a spouse that just won't *do it.* i really can't recommend it more. wish i'd done it earlier, but i'm still young enough to get a couple decades (if i'm lucky) enjoyment, with someone who will *love* touching me, talking to me, sharing their life with me. i didn't have to spend all those years feeling the way i did. if i can be of any assistance to you, please reach out. i'm on fb too, though not a big user

Thanks Letty!

Things right now are actually better than they have ever been. Whittling away as Indie so eloquently puts it, has actually been working over the course of time. We do spend a lot of time together, H has put a lot of effort into eliminating LB's and I can definitely see the impact of that on my love bank for him. I look forward to our dates now, and I know he does too. We have now started focusing more on meeting each others EN's. We are in the process of building a new home and have negotiated amazingly well, there is only one time that I have had to tell him I didn't feel safe expressing my opinions (because he was using LB's to get his way) and would like to discuss the issue later and he was respectful of that. It used to be one day out of the month that I felt sorta happy and semi in love, and the rest of the days I had to restrain myself from packing a bag. But now it is the other way around. Now almost all days I feel pretty happy and more and more in love with him. But there are still those days I will admit, that I think it would have been real nice to just have a fresh start.

We went out to dinner one night recently and we were just casually talking about life, and he looked me in the eyes and almost started crying and said, "Unwritten, I am really sorry." He didn't mention those things which should not be named, but I know what he was referring to. Of course he has said he was sorry in the beginning, but it was the first time he said it like this, out of the blue, unprovoked, like he just wanted to tell me this, not because he thought I wanted to hear it. We are kindof beyond that. Which means it was the first time I believed it. He truly looked remorseful that he had put our marriage through this. It meant a lot to me.

So I would say for now, things are looking pretty good.

I am a bit resentful about the lack of leadership though. I see so many men here who fight tooth and nail for their wayward spouse. My H didn't fight at all. That has taken a hit on my admiration need being met. It makes me feel like I wasn't worth it to him. But I know how romantic love works, and looking back I realize that he was probably never really in love with me. So with that in mind, at the time, maybe I wasn't worth the effort to him. If he didn't love me, would he be inspired to fight for me. Dr Harley says men just need a woman to come along for the ride, but women need a man to lead the process. I absolutely wanted that. But I figured out along the way I was not going to get it, and chose to lead myself. Now I do feel like he has fallen in love a bit, and that has made him more remorseful and has made the effort more worth it to him. BUT, if I stopped scheduling UA today, would he? No, probably not. He would tell me he misses our dates and ask me to schedule it. But he would not do it himself. So yes I am resentful for having to be the leader, even though it is making the desired impact.

That being said, your story sounds like it could be me. That is why I ask the questions I do. Maybe I am fooling myself into thinking that better than it has ever been is good enough.

firstly: that is really good news. makes me realise how long i've been away! i am really happy to hear it.

after reading second message: how's the sex life going? that was a big sticking point for your (and me).

Hrm. Loaded question.

SF has been a very difficult process. After everything that was said to me on my own thread, I almost felt an aversion to it. I felt really BAD to have it as my top EN. Looking back at my history with H, I felt ashamed at how aggressive I was, how much I had begged for it over the years. I felt like it was a weakness to have a great need for it.I stopped flirting at all after all the discussion about the grey line between good and vulgar (which, apparently I have unknowingly stepped over my whole life). I felt really bad instigating, like I was begging for it. And I was VERY sensitive to rejection. Since H does not instigate and does not have a drive, it went from bad when I got here to much worse. We never had SF and if we did, it was not good. And eventually I fell out of love with him, and felt no desire for him. I still had the physical desire mind you, just not with him.

Things have gotten a bit better lately, as we have eliminated LB's and started to fall back in love slowly. No where near meeting my need for it though. I just keep whittling. Dr Harley talks about how when everything else is fixed, SF will fall into place, and I guess I just put my faith in that.

I try not to think about it anymore, hopefully some day it will come.

oh honey, i hope so.

Me too! (I posted some thoughts about this on Unwritten's thread.)

Congratulations Letty. I hope you enjoy your peace and have fun with your new life. I'm sure that many new connections will come your way. Great effort and job well done.

Sorry to threadjack, but from my own experience of being in a marriage with SF issues and now being free of it, I couldn't more strongly say not to settle like this.

What you said sums up how I approached the same issue (although ignorant of MB at the time) and now I only wish I had those years back. They weren't many years to lose compared to many situations on here, but they matter to me and I wish I hadn't settled into this line of thinking for so long.

Hoping is never better than having boundaries and expectations, and had I been more honest with myself for those years, I am certain I would have found a resource like MB to clean up my side of the street and then really got to the bottom of whether my ex had any intention to EVER work at this or not. People like us who languish for years with unmet ENs aren't the sort that throw away marriages, we are usually the ones fighting for them.

Divorce seems terrifying at first but even a few months in the clear it is more clear every day that I made the right choice in doing it. What you said there just really struck a nerve because I can remember feeling exactly that way.

When you start trying to ignore it, it's not really hope. It's just that awkward space between hope and hopelessness.

That's not really MB advice but just my $.02.

Thanks ax. I am not really ignoring it in the fact that I still bring it up on every ENQ (which we try to do every couple months), and keep it front and center that way. I am just trying to stay focused on fixing LB's, doing the UA and filling other needs until he is more enthusiastic about meeting this particular need. Dr Harley often focuses on everything else first, because once a couple falls back into love, the SF almost fixes itself. I was just trying to say I am relying on that plan to work as we fix the rest.

Letty was around a few years ago when I first started posting here, back then it was one of the main items I posted about. I wanted more SF and was resentful for not getting it. There were a LOT of reasons why that was the case. We are trying to eliminate those reasons first, before focusing on the SF (i.e. lots of LBing, no UA, basically H was not in love with me and at times I have also not been in love with him...). I know he has much less of a drive than me, he has chronic health issues, and for that reason it is hard for me to imagine my need ever getting met *well* but I think now that we are working the program more, it will get better.

Hi letty! Just wanted to pop in and say that I am so happy for you! Thanks for updating us

I, unfortunately, continue to be an MB failure but I keep going forward with trying to get over "that terrible time" and living my life.thanks for thinking of me

Ooops! Formerly known as rocketqueen, lol.

So good to see you back on MB my dear friend. You have been in my thoughts the last couple of weeks. So good to hear things continue to go well with your new life but sorry to hear of latest news of ex - can't believe he used that profile, best to have no contact & protect that big heart of yours.

He's already had an affair so yes he gets the risk. The girls are just doing it to boost their ego but they'll do more for the same feedback. "Models" love attention. I tried to explain to one of my husband's friends that if somone is willing to take a picture of a banana that doesn't make it a "sexy model." He's making you feel bad about yourself and foolish about your relationship and trust in him. Ask him if that is his goal. If it's not, knowing that's what he's doing he needs to stop or you need to go. IMO. He already knows it's wrong.

hi everyone! and ever2late - i'll be checking out your thread to see where you are! thanks for all the posts.

i met someone in september and have been happily dating. going on a first date was ROUGH! i was shaking so hard it was obvious. thank goodness first-first date was with someone else (actually 2 others first, no go). but our first date was still fraught with fear and anxiety. it took some time for that to calm. but i knew right away this one was worth fighting through the anxiety.

it is wonderful seeing someone without all the baggage, who i don't have to worry about in that way. he is a widower (2x). 6 kids, though only one is bio. the fact that he fathers these (grown) children was part of the attraction.

but that's not what i came to post about. guess who's trying to get back in the picture?! yes, xWS is trying to get back. and i have to say, i was a bit taken aback by my feelings, and disappointed that he could attempt to meet ENs (not the attempt, but my inner response). the thought of being able to "start over" with a clean slate was a bit of a draw, i admit. all those words i always wanted to hear. all those ideas i'd always wanted from him. but i know that i would never be able to be 100% comfortable, never 100% "in" the relationship - i would always be holding back a part of me, waiting for the next hurt. besides - part of me knows it's just "some other dog dug up MY bone!" that's not remotely flattering.

i thought it was an interesting wrinkle to post here (i was going to post in dating, but i know you guys ). 20+ years of history, though, was a strong pull, and i could see, thanks to MB, how that had the potential to make a BIG mess. i am stronger for my MB work, though, and knew exactly what to do!

new man and i started our relationship on total honesty, and we discuss every little thing. one good thing about starting an older relationship is not having to avoid the "minefields" of younger dating. because we've already done all that - had kids, careers, etc. there wasn't any topic to avoid - not religion, not sex, not anything. and to be kissed by someone who *wants* to kiss me? hooeeey!

Do you think XWS knew you were dating and that's one of the reason he tried?

So glad you found someone Letty. You so deserve it!!