I'm not intentionally arguing. Do I have to agree with everything you say in order for you to stop saying I'm arguing? I feel like you guys are being a little harsh. I do appreciate your time, and I've already said I'll try to do what you suggested.

What should I say that won't be construed as arguing? I still don't really feel understood.

I believe you. Is it irrelevant whether or not he's trying to get away? I've actually asked him to leave several times, but he demands that I leave (or stay but stop talking) instead.

I do understand that I should stop if he asks me to stop something. I just don't understand how not doing that is a selfish demand. I'm trying to understand so that I can identify other selfish demands in the future and not do them. I'll read love busters again and see if that helps.

Again, I've never argued that I shouldn't stop talking to him when he loses his temper.

Hi smallpiece and welcome. It can be hard when you first arrive & I will try to help if I can.

First- sometimes, it is good to just accept that when others well versed in these concepts tell you its a selfish demand to accept it whether you understand yet or not.
A lot of these concepts are more about action or non action while understanding comes.

So: why was it a selfish demand from you: you began doing something against his will.
(No matter how he let you know- he did let you know. we can work on how he tells you later- I'm not giving him a pass- but this is about what you need to do)

It doesnt matter if it is: stop touching me, stop speaking, stop singing, stop playing that game, stop hitting me, stop dancing, stop whistling....etc. I hope you get the point.
The moment you are told to stop & do not stop whatever it is- you are now doing it against their will and are demanding that they accept what you are doing by the sheer fact of doing it.
Do not ask why- do not expect them to have to leave the room, or change their behavior- they just asked you to change yours.

What should you say: could validate what has been said like Dr H talks about in enemies of good conversation.
Then after validating what has been said- ask for a game plan.

As for your DH- the moment he gets angry or says stop- just stop speaking. You leave if you have to in order to control yourself
& if HE becomes angry- you leave!!! Do not just sit there & take it.
Hang up the phone.
Refuse to text back.
In the shower? Get out & leave.
In the car- don't let him drive if he gets mad.
Leave, leave, get away, don't speak & did I mention -leave.
Be a broken record: the way your acting & speaking bother me & really hurt my feelings- stop. Then leave!!!!!

He should get used to the fact that if he gets angry- all he is going to get is you going away & an end to the conversation.

I was married to very angry men so I do feel your pain- and his behavior will need to be addressed- but since you are here, all I can do is help your behavior.

As for right now- you can still tell him that you see your behavior upsets him terribly and that you are going to stop it. Since it is important to him, it is important to you.
Then follow it up with doing it.

One great rule I followed was that regardless of his LB.... If I committed my own- I would act in the manner I wish he did & treat him the way I wanted to be treated.

As for understanding you-
I think that we can see that you don't yet understand how you argue & commit LB.
Your husband is angry & making large LB of his own.
It seems to me you want his LB addressed before you take care of yours.
Now you are in a stand off with each other.
You really don't know what to do. You are reading & listening but still don't quite have it yet- but want too.

I am sorry that you find yourself in this spot- but you are in good hands.
I would write Dr Harley personally & then sign up for the accountability program.

And yes- it is irrelevant what he does after he asks you to stop. "Getting away" or just sitting there.

In fact, while you are learning... It would be better if it is you leaving because you can control you!

And your DD is seeing all this? What an example you both are for her. That poor child.

Have you read the Basic Concepts here?

Have you read the Policy of Joint Agreement?

Is your husband enthusiastic about you continuing to do something he's asked you to stop doing?

By the way, when you signed up here, you clicked a checkbox saying that you'd read the Basic Concepts. Did you read them?

Thanks. I'm trying to accept what people are saying, but honestly, is seems so judgmental. Also, one of the things I really like about Dr. Harley is that he *does* explain things really well so that they're easy to understand. Has he written specifically about doing things someone demanded that you stop doing being a selfish demand in itself? Again, I'll reread love busters.

That said, I of course realize that I play a part in my marital difficulties.

We understand completely. We just don't agree. This site is to help people implement MB in their own marriages. So if you disagree with Dr. Harley's definitions, we will consider you to be arguing.

Also, you are refusing to accept the outside persceptive you requested, which is not productive for you.

You are here. Let's clean up your side of the street.

Thank you for this reply. Now I feel understood. Yes, ideally I would want his LB addressed first, because it's really hard to be loving towards someone who has been yelling at you and calling you names, and is *still* in a really bad mood. But I understand that may be impossible, and of course I can't control what he does.

I don't understand how your post is helpful, but we try not to argue in front of her. And I try not to argue in general- other than the mistake I keep making of not leaving a toxic conversation, I try to follow Dr. Harley's negotiation advice. My husband is not on board with that yet.

Yep. I'm very well versed in all of the concepts. I've been immersing myself in them almost every day since September, and I'm kind of addicted to the radio show.

No, of course he's not enthusiastic about it, but I'm not enthusiastic about being asked to stop either, because I feel hurt that he's losing his temper and feel like I've done nothing to cause that, and I have a hard time grasping that he's not the same person when he's angry.

Part of my problem is that I'm a calm person and I grew up in a family with a father who NEVER lost his temper or really displayed emotions at all, and a mother who cried a lot but wasn't aggressive. I'm NOT justifying my behavior- I'm just trying to explain why I have such a hard time dealing with anger. I don't understand it and expect people to act reasonable. I never learned how to deal with it.

Maybe I haven't been expressing myself very well, but I don't disagree with any of Dr. Harley's definitions, nor do I refuse to accept anyone's perspective. Is it arguing to try to better explain my own perspective when I feel like people aren't quite getting it? I reread this whole thread and STILL don't see where I was arguing.

And I said that I would do everything suggested.

My husband is reading this too. Do you have advice for him?

Yes! Read Lovebusters. Did you get the book? It is a good idea to get 2 copies and each of you read a couple of chapters each day and do the lessons in the back. As you are reading, you should each highlight comments [use different color highlighters] that stand out to you and then exchange the books so you can see each others highlights.

Also, it would be helpful if your husband registered under his own name and had his own thread.

What you did right there, that is arguing.

This is NOT HELPFUL. Instead of arguing about whether you were arguing, your efforts would be better spent focusing on solutions. We aren't here to understand your perspective. We are here to help you understand Marriage Builders. Unless you can stop this, I don't see the point of helping you.

Continuing to explain (over and over) when someone disagrees with you is arguing. We disagree with you. Since you are the one seeking help with your marriage, perhaps you should try to understand OUR perspective first.