I imagine that your statement above was a lovebuster to her. It is an outburst of frustration, and blames her that you supposedly have to email her, which isn't true. She is understandably annoyed to communicate with you because you haven�t respected her in the past.

At this point, don�t discuss your plan to contact her frequently. It�s about you giving the gift of thoughtfulness and affection to her. You don�t need her permission or a discussion to reach out to her. She doesn�t even need to respond. If she doesn�t respond or if she gets bent out of shape, you still do it! The point of these new daily communication habits is to express the goodwill gift of care.

Agreed?

Jim-


Please keep an open mind about the following...


YOU SAID,

AND
AND

What you said above, was NOT reflected in this statement to Sugar:





Sugarcane was trying to reflect back your lack of follow through with the MB program. Though it is tough to hear, I see it as VERY compassionate of her to help you understand why you are back on the couch and why your wife feels hopeless. She was trying to help you see clearly and find the motivation to follow through in the future.

I'm sure it was difficult for Sugar to be balled out by someone she is trying to help. It's YOUR marriage at stake here, and not hers. She posted out of compassion. I would encourage you to see Sugarcane's post in that light.

Yes, and I will answer each question in a separate post to make it easier to pay attention.

When my husband CONSISTENTLY messages and calls me throughout the day:

1. It demonstrates that I am not "out of sight out of mind".
2. It demonstrates that I am worth his time, and worth
thinking about.
3. It breeds hope for the present and future, and fades the
negative from the past.
4. It prevents independent behavior by both of us.
5. It makes love bank deposits in the areas of Affection,
Intimate Conversation, and Family Commitment.

So that's been my personal experience. It represents what Dr. Harley talks about daily on the radio show. I hope that helps.

I love this question!!
YES, it seems formal and robotic at first. In fact, it was very difficult and uncomfortable for my husband to do it at first. And I felt awkward and frustrated by that. But I couldn�t deny that those messages and check-ins represented effort on his part.
It feels �fake� to her for a couple of possible reasons. Either the Way you do it is not what you did when you were dating, or, the thoughtfulness is not evident. Over time, you will be able to take feedback from your wife without being defensive, and you can adjust your communications to better fit her. Another possibility is that you both need to get used to it, and over time, it will feel more natural.

Dr. Harley & Joyce discuss this topic frequently on the radio show.

Anything that would be considered private or flirty. Something positive that would be inappropriate for another man to say to her.


In the beginning, the messages looked kinda like this:


Hi wife, Hope you are having a good day.
How are you today?
Are we supposed to go out tonight?
Checking in�


Now, after a few years of MB work, dating, and consistency, they look very different. Here are some recent examples from my phone�shhh
(I�m sharing with his permission)


Hey DQ, Wish we could hang out some more. It would be nice to go for a walk with you. Love you!

Good Morning DQ.
I loved our time together this weekend. Thanks for being a .

Hey� I need to do (xyz) thing. Can I call you at �?

Good morning DQ �Love you. Sorry I couldn�t be there to help you with �..

Love you. Hopefully we can run away tonight. Hope you are feeling better.

Call you in 2�.

Can we go out tonight?



Jim, can you imagine how much these daily text messages mean to me? Seriously, they light up my day. What a powerful man my husband has become. He has the power to send happiness my way. And he uses it every single day. And I do not take it for granted.


By the way, Dr. Harley and Joyce discuss this type of stuff daily on the MBradio show.

Okay Mr.Jim�. Are you sure you want to keep asking for my thoughts?

Here�s the deal. Some people struggle to think of stuff and struggle to get motivated and then struggle to remember things. That may be you. It�s not instinctive for you to do this stuff. But that doesn�t mean that you can�t, or that you don�t need to.

Your wife needs to see that you can make changes and follow through, before she will have faith in this program for YOUR marriage. Hopefully, in time, she will see the possibilities, and agree to sign up for the MB online accountability program. It was so helpful for us and having a coach would take a huge pressure off of your wife.


Until it becomes second nature, you will need to set reminders and alarms. I suggested that you start with these texts and calls to your wife, because it will start the ball rolling, and get you into the habit of thinking of her often. Your job is to FOLLOW THRU when the alarm goes off. DO NOT skip for any reason.



Did you kiss your wife goodbye this morning? Did you hold her and kiss her hello when you got home?

How did your care messages go at 10am, 12:30pm, and in the afternoon?

Do you see any reason why you cannot keep this schedule?

DQ, thank you for responding to all of my questions. Its very helpful to hear how your husband's actions felt to you. My wife and I talked for awhile tonight about our struggles together. My wife has a lot of resentment towards me for all of the years of neglect. I spent a lot of time doing things that didn't involve her. I pursued my hobbies and found passion for other things. That passion never included her. My cycling years really took a huge toll on her. She feels as if I had an affair with a bicycle. She's right...I can see how she feels that way. When our difficulties started (roughly 5 yrs ago), there were a few things that I did that really left a deep level of hurt inside of her. I just want to quickly recap these things because I think it will give context for where we are now:

o I took a new job (5 yrs ago) and pretty much made the decision on my own without discussing with her all of the details and deciding together. I even promised to talk with her in great detail before I took the job and never did. I accepted the job via email to my future boss and I copied my wife on the email very proud of myself for involving her. What a mistake! What a jerk!

o Our aged dog was very sick one evening. We thought that she was going to die that night. My wife was also sick with a bad cold. Rather than stay with/help my wife, I slept in the garage in my car so that I could help our dog. I thought that she was going to die. It felt like the right thing to do at the time but it wasn't.

o My wife and I went to IKEA and had a very nice day being together. As we were in line to check out, my wife pushed the cart forward and accidentally bumped a pallet full of champagne glasses. About 5 of them fell on the floor and shattered, glass everywhere. We were both embarrassed. The IKEA personnel told us to step away from the glass (I was on the ground picking up shards to help clean up the mess). My wife was very embarrassed and I did nothing to ease the situation like putting my arm around her and telling her that it was okay. Nope, I leaned over to her and said "...how embarrassing is this!". Then I kind of backed away from her and basically left her on her own. Oh boy!

Those are most of the big things. Now, the reason that I tell you about these is that my wife has insisted that we talk through each of these experiences and clear the air. I can't say that we've really ever talked through any of these things until she is healed of the hurt. We've talked about the events in excruciating detail, examining every facet of each event under a microscope. So, we've definitely talked about the events but we haven't had any healing at all. My wife is as hurt now as she was when they occurred; even more so now because I can't seem to "talk" the way that my wife is envisioning. I am struggling as to how to "talk" about these events so that we can break down the wall that is between us. I know that Dr. H suggests to talk of difficult events in great detail and then don't ever talk of them again but move on. I know that he speaks of this as it relates to an affair but I'm not sure if he means this with any kind of difficult event. That said, my wife needs to talk through these things until we can heal but we haven't been able to talk in a way that heals anything.

Hopefully, that gives you some good understanding of what we're dealing with at this point. We have been in this mode now for at least 5 years. I have not kissed my wife for at least 3 years now. The only physical contact that we have is holding hands (even that has stopped recently).

I truly believe that my personal problem is that I don't know how to develop relationships. I'm not really close to anyone. I'm not close to my wife. I don't have any friends that I share my deepest thoughts with. I have had close relationships in my past. I've had 2 very close friends that I could talk to openly and honestly without any fear of embarrassment, reprisal...I was very safe. I've never experienced that with my wife. We weren't the kind of kids that when we were dating would sit for hours at a time just talking. We have never talked much. I think that our marriage was driven primarily by hormones. Now that the kids are grown up and gone, its just us and we have no relationship. I spent all of those years chasing my interests and now we have nothing. Its really quite sad. So, thats where we are right now. You can kind of see what we're in the midst of.

I truly believe that the principles taught by the MB program are true and will bring us back together. I believe that our relationship can be better than it ever was during the whole of our marriage as well.

My wife is extremely needful to discuss my past indiscretions in order to heal from them. I'm not sure how to do this and what she needs/expects. Maybe you can help me to better understand what she means. I'm sorry to put this on you but I really do appreciate the efforts that the moderators put forth on this forum. I just hope that you all can help me and my wife. We are both running out of steam...DJ

You are in a good place Jim. At least your wife refuses to settle any longer with feeling invisible and steamrolled. She shouldn't feel like you don't listen unless she yells at you or threatens divorce. But finally you are listening. This is good.

Dr. Harley once told my husband that his greatest achievements would be made in his efforts as a husband and father. Look who that's coming from- A man who has done LOTS of things in life, including owning businesses, creating a huge website, getting his doctorate, writing lots of books including bestsellers, being a Christian and helping save marriages for decades. His greatest achievement has been his affair-free, romantic marriage with Joyce.

Keep that in mind, please. You can do this.

Now, I do have answers for you about what your wife is seeking by reviewing your past thoughtless behavior. However, before I respond, I really need to know how it went today. Can you please answer the questions from my most recent post?

Fyi..I am not a moderator. Just paying it forward. Used to be in your wife's position. Not anymore, thanks to Marriage Builders peeps and principles. Oh. And lots of effort from me and my husband.

DQ, here are my responses to your questions:

Did you kiss your wife goodbye this morning?...No, she will not let me kiss her

Did you hold her and kiss her hello when you got home?...No, right now, she is not interested in any affection from me

How did your care messages go at 10am, 12:30pm, and in the afternoon? ...I did call her at each time that I set for alarms. She was babysitting the grandkids so she had a lot on her plate. We didn't get to really talk much at 10 or 12:30. At 3:00, we simply coordinated our schedules and planned to meet so that we could get some dinner and shop for groceries.

Do you see any reason why you cannot keep this schedule?...I see no reason that would prevent me from keeping this schedule.

DJ

Did you actually try to kiss or hug her Jim? Or did you assume that she is not interested and won't let you?

As for calling her at each alarm...

Either you are missing my tediously made points about written messages to her or you are unwilling.

So is it clueless or unwilling?

DQ, here are answers to your questions:

Did you actually try to kiss or hug her Jim? Or did you assume that she is not interested and won't let you?...I assumed and did not attempt to do anything.

As for calling her at each alarm...

Either you are missing my tediously made points about written mess ages to her or you are unwilling.

So is it clueless or unwilling?...I heard what you said about written messages. I was more focused on calling her at the various alarms throughout the day. I did not send her anything via email (reminder, she's not enamored with cell phones so texting is not possible)...so I'm certainly not unwilling, I just didn't write anything yesterday and focused on phone calls instead...

DQ, I took your "written messages" to heart and just texted her phone. She probably won't see it for a few days but I understand your position on these messages and how they help.

I also just sent her an email inquiring how she is feeling...she's at the starting end of a cold. I told her that I would call her in a bit...10:00 as planned...DJ

Thanks for your honesty. And for your follow up.

Some thoughts about your assessment of the situation...

Your problem is not knowing how to develop a relationship. You have Dr.Harley's books, you have MBradio, you have previously received lengthy tutoring sessions from the forum. (Btw, Sugarcane was among those who gave of her time.)

Instead, I would define your personal problem this way:

When you try to follow through, you feel all sorts of negative emotions like discomfort, resentment, fear, skeptisism, nervousness, etc. In essence, you are scared. And sometimes you are angry, and sometimes you are selfishly unwilling. Those are your INSTINCTS that keep you stuck.

Learning to move forward using your intellect, despite the emotional discomfort that you feel, is going to be your biggest challenge.

Your choices are:

A. Keep asking for information and reasons why you should do these thoughtful actions, and keep discussing the problem until we are both blue in the face

B. Take caring action despite your resentment, fear and discomfort. Implement the MB principles by forming good marital habits one at a time.

If you decide not to follow through on these basic care expressions, then honestly I would recommend that you free your wife and provide her huge financial support. It is damaging to her when you say you care and then avoid demonstrations of care out of selfishness or fear.


So are you willing to retrain your instincts?


If so, the next step is to revise your thoughtfulgram plan into one that's uber predictable and effective. �

R.S.V.P.

Jim-

1. Have you actually ASKED your wife if she would be willing to do the MB online accountability program with you?

2. How do you know that everything in the MB program is what she believes?

3. How did you find Marriage Builders?

4. Has your wife heard recordings of your radio shows? Do you have access to the archives?

DQ, I can see how my instincts kick in because you are spot-on. I am scared. So scared that I am paralyzed. It feels like my instincts are standing in the way of doing something.

I just talked to my wife during our lunchtime phone chat and I had just read your message regarding instincts. I really hung in there on the phone and even though the discussion was very uncomfortable, I didn't run, I pushed through. It is very hard for me. I need to learn how to overcome those instincts so to answer your question, yes, I want to proceed and as you say "learn how to retrain my instincts"...DJ

DQ, here are my responses to your questions:

1. Have you actually ASKED your wife if she would be willing to do the MB online accountability program with you?...I have not asked her. I do not know much about the online program.

2. How do you know that everything in the MB program is what she believes?...When i first discovered the MB program, I attempted to talk to her about it and the principles that Dr. Harley teaches. Because of where we were at the time, she didn't want to hear it and anything that I suggested was instantly dismissed. Since then, I have attempted to interject MB principles into our discussions without calling them out as MB principles. The policy of radical honesty, the policy of UA, the policy of joint agreement. She believes in these things so there is no issue with the principles; its just that they come from MB and she has an aversion to MB just like she does to bicycles.


3. How did you find Marriage Builders?...I found MB just by hunting on the internet one day. It looked very interesting and pretty soon, I was hooked.

4. Has your wife heard recordings of your radio shows? Do you have access to the archives?...No, my wife has not heard recordings of the shows that I was on. She doesn't know that I was on the radio. I do have recordings of the shows.

Have you come completely clean with your wife about your past indescretions and independent behavior? (Private habits)

I'm not suggesting that you do that just yet, I'm needing to know if you ever did.

Yes, I have come clean and we have talked about my past indiscretions and independent behavior. There has been a lot of it. We have discussed in great detail the difficult situations that I have caused.

I hate to say it but sometimes people are going to be how they are going to be. My wife is that way. We've tried counseling, together and separately. She hasn't a clue what she actually does and says that is hurtful to me. So, I've just chosen to overlook and let it be. My self image is stronger for it and for all the rest of the world knows we get along fine. And I feel a whole lot better not trying to get her to change.