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And through all this, he must not be the slightest bit disrespectful toward her, which was Sugarcane's point. But I'm not surprised you missed that, because you yourself struggle with disrespectful judgments toward your wife (and seem to think they're justified at times). That is the piece that is most difficult to execute. Clearly my WW did not respect me, to pursue contact with POSOM for at least the previous 9 years. I was able to compartmentalize that fact for two months while I was doing Plan A, but it became a real struggle when I discovered that secretly she was planning the divorce. And now with the legal machinery working, it will be a Herculean task to effectively do a Plan A while we are fighting it out in the courts. She had proposed (in writing by email) a 50/50 custody schedule which I agreed to in writing (albeit reluctantly). Now she wants to renege on that and seek total custody. With these legal maneuverings, it is very hard for me to try to Plan A her, don't you agree?
Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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Yes, Plan A can be emotionally trying. Being respectful in the face of disrespect can be difficult. You are not the first BH to discover this.
If you find that you cannot control yourself, and keep yourself respectful despite what she does, then you need to move from Plan A to Plan B. What you can't do is continue to lovebust her and call it Plan A.
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If you find that you cannot control yourself, and keep yourself respectful despite what she does, then you need to move from Plan A to Plan B. What you can't do is continue to lovebust her and call it Plan A. With the latest maneuverings, it is getting very hard emotionally. I try not to discuss anything related to the R or D with her now. I generally walk away before it gets to be an LB.
Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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If you find that you cannot control yourself, and keep yourself respectful despite what she does, then you need to move from Plan A to Plan B. What you can't do is continue to lovebust her and call it Plan A. With the latest maneuverings, it is getting very hard emotionally. I try not to discuss anything related to the R or D with her now. I generally walk away before it gets to be an LB. And that's the way it should be. Let your lawyer go to battle for you over the divorce and anything related to it. The only thing your wife should be getting from you is Plan A. I would also encourage you not to push back at the posters that point out your lovebusters, as you did with Sugarcane. Posters only point those out so that you can better your Plan A, giving you a higher chance of success. But if you push back, those posters are likely to move on and find someone else to help. It's a shame Sugarcane's moving on from your thread -- she's one of the best when it comes to spotting lovebusters you may be blind to.
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I'm sorry that you are facing such obstacles, Lost.
It's too bad that you are so bogged down with the current situation that you don't have time to educate yourself thoroughly in MB principles. It sure would prevent mistakes in the event of an about face by your wife. It would also pass the time and clarify PlanA behavior.
It seems like this should be part of the recommendations for all betrayed spouses.
Are you listening to the radio show daily?
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I'm sorry that you are facing such obstacles, Lost.
It's too bad that you are so bogged down with the current situation that you don't have time to educate yourself thoroughly in MB principles. It sure would prevent mistakes in the event of an about face by your wife. It would also pass the time and clarify PlanA behavior. I have read the books (SAA twice actually), and listened to the radio shows, and I do understand the MB concepts fairly clearly. What I have been writing here are my inner thoughts and complaints, I have not voiced them to WW since D-Day. I have not been LB'ing my wife during this time. As you can see, my inner self is having a hard time coming to grips with her behavior right now. Hopefully my anger can pass when she does move out and I can think more clearly. I asked WW this morning when she is moving out. She told me "when my lawyer tells me I can." Not sure what they are planning, perhaps their strategy is to have me to pay all her expenses up until the Separation Date.
Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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What I have been writing here are my inner thoughts and complaints, I have not voiced them to WW since D-Day. I have not been LB'ing my wife during this time. I am willing to bet she can sense your disrespect. I know I could always sense it from markos, even when he didn't say anything. Did you listen to yesterday's show? Dr. Harley talked about this. It was a great show on the subject.
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I would still recommend listening daily.
Hang in there. If her life was that comfortable, then hopefully she'll remember that when all fog breaks loose.
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I am willing to bet she can sense your disrespect. I know I could always sense it from markos, even when he didn't say anything.
Did you listen to yesterday's show? Dr. Harley talked about this. It was a great show on the subject. I am sure you are right. That "sensing" has been a theme in our marriage for the past few years. To be honest, we didn't actually argue or verbally fight until AFTER D-Day. I think this is what I found most unfair about her leaving me. She never vocalized her displeasure about things until I confronted her on D-Day. Sure, she might snap at me or DS for our Annoying Habits (not folding the laundry, not making our beds, etc.) She frequently said she has two boys at home. But she never addressed my part in her unhappiness or displeasure directly. I never knew she was unhappy, unfortunately. After reading MB books I realized my mistakes, but obviously it's too late. The good news I just got was the judge postponed their emergency motion on the finances until next Tuesday. He didn't buy the last minute surprise ex parte filing tactic WW's lawyer pulled. WW is trying to move our assets back into the joint account that I moved four weeks PRIOR to her filing for divorce. It should not be part of the ATRO order. Bad news is now the two of us just p*ssed off more money in lawyer and court fees that our DS could have more productively been used for his college. This is the saddest part of the whole thing.
Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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I realized my mistakes, but obviously it's too late. Not necessarily. That's what Plan A is for.
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Lost,
"I am just so frustrated that the cards are so stacked against me in the legal system" Well Lost, poor you! - this is the theme throughout your thread. Despite much advice, you are not even attempting a decent Plan A. You're too concerned with the financial consequence for you.
"If you find that you cannot control yourself, and keep yourself respectful despite what she does, then you need to move from Plan A to Plan B. What you can't do is continue to lovebust her and call it Plan A." Prisca and others are right -you are focusing more on the financial results of a possible divorce over trying to save your M.
"I asked WW this morning when she is moving out." Another good example of a contra Plan A. I'm sure your W feels reassured that she has a safe landing when she her affair ends, and she wants to return to you.
I'm sure you're frightened about a possible divorce, but you're making this all about you, and it Is not. It's also about your W who is probably as frightened as you are about a split. How about taking the advice here to heart and practicing it. I realize the affair and your emotions, but think abut the way you felt and wanted to treat your w way way back (you two are not exactly spring chickens...*s*) when you were married, and try to get back there.
Tom
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Yes, I have read about codependency. Unfortunately, with a divorce lawsuit and motion staring at me tomorrow morning, I'm in no position to be fixing the balance right now! I have always supported WW working full time. However, I really think I spoiled her as she cut her hours more and more over the years. In the beginning it was because our DS was just born, but as he progressed through the grades she just said she didn't want to work as many hours. In the end, she ended up with just 15 hours even though we have a full-time after school program that covers DS from 8a-6p daily. I always thought it was healthier for her to at least do some work rather than being an entirely SAHM. Also, she did have free rein over the checkbook. She wrote most of the bills to pay checks (which is only about 5 a month since most things are electronic now). I never complained about her spending ever since it was an issue for her first EA 17 years ago. I just let her spend what she liked, and she was pretty responsible about it most of the time. You are responding to a lot of personal philosophy (in the post that was edited away - I saw it) that has nothing to do with anything that Dr Harley advises. Joyce Harley was a SAHM when her kids were young, because that is what suited the family at the time. From Dr Harley's description of how desperate she was to get out on dates with him, and how much they spent on babysitters making sure that UA time outside the home happened for 15 hours every week, Joyce did not always love being at home with tiny children. She saw their dates as an escape from some of that tedium and frustration. Dr Harley never saw his financial support at that time as "spoiling" Joyce, and he never argued that it would have been "healthier" for her to have stopped being a SAHM. Your attitude in that statement is in fact a very worrying disrespectful judgement, and, ironically, could be argued to be controlling. You are telling us what you thought she should have done, knowing that she did not want to work as many hours; she made that clear. Yet, rather than value her point of view, you belittle it by saying "even though we have a full-time after school, program" etc. Have you any understanding of why your wife wanted to look after her child herself? Would she have been happy subjecting a very young child to such a long day in institutional care, where he would be looked after by strangers? And you are responding to a view (edited away) that argued that when a man is the breadwinner, he is meeting more of the wife's needs, and she is meeting fewer of his. That view is not one that Dr Harley would endorse at all. That view also said that the wife who feels she is not meeting her husband's needs equally (because his role as the breadwinner somehow makes him better at meeting her needs than she is at meeting his), would feel resentful. The wife would feel resentful that she is not meeting his needs. That is nonsense. In Dr Harley's argument, if resentment is felt, it is by the person who needs are not being met. This is an example of what I mean when I said the other day that you are mixing the kinds of everyman philosophy, written on free-for-all websites, with MB. I don't know where that view about a SAHM being bad for the marriage comes from, but it does not come from Dr Harley, whose advice we have agreed to give on this forum. Your view of your wife's contribution as a SAHM is not very respectful (along with other things you have said about her), and if she sensed this, that might be something else that she does not want to return to. Please read this article: http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi5055_qa.htmlthis is what I am talking about. There is nothing wrong with a SAHM provided both are in enthusiastic agreement. The article talks about an "allowance" and how that turns into control and resentment. My only point is that POJA must be followed otherwise neither will be happy. I learned first hand that SAHM does not work if needs aren't being met in the marriage. This is also addressed in this article. here is just an excerpt; " Because you depended on him to provide for your emotional needs (financial support, among other things), you felt trapped. You had to try to meet his demands, or he might stop meeting your needs. When you married, you did not make your expectations clear. Instead of forming an interdependent relationship, you formed a dependent relationship. That, in turn, led to your feeling controlled, and the more controlled you felt, the more depressed you became. Sometimes the person we depend on doesn't understand how our refusal to meet their request affects him or her. In your case, Greg, whenever Sally refused to make love to you, Sally felt that you gave her less money to spend. That may have been the case, even if you don't remember the connection. It may have been unintentional on your part to link love-making with her allowance, but she saw the relationship, and regarded it as control. But, Sally, if the tables had been turned, maybe you could have seen what Greg was up against. Suppose that the only way you would enjoy making love is for Greg to first spend an hour meeting your needs for affection and conversation. Without either, you just wouldn't enjoy the experience. So you explain to him that he must meet your emotional needs in order for you to meet his. Is that control? "
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Wow, where do I begin with how incorrect that is? She doesn't go to work unless they are both enthusiastic. Period. End of sentence.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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They should follow POJA about everything right? Husband should also not go to work unless they are both in enthusiastic agreement. Why is this forum so sexist about working. I don't get it. There is nothing wrong with a stay at home Dad...is there? Why is it automatically assumed that only husbands work??? I am dumbfounded by this. Wow, where do I begin with how incorrect that is? She doesn't go to work unless they are both enthusiastic. Period. End of sentence.
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They should follow POJA about everything right? Husband should also not go to work unless they are both in enthusiastic agreement. Yep. Why is this forum so sexist about working. I don't get it. There is nothing wrong with a stay at home Dad...is there? Why is it automatically assumed that only husbands work??? I am dumbfounded by this. Financial support is more typically an emotional need of women than of men.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I had a discussion with WW about her lawyer's courtroom tactics. Basically she's just trying to bill us for as much as she can, filing motions left and right when all we have to do is negotiate. I showed her my brokerage statement, none of the assets have been touched, not a penny is missing. There's no hurry or "emergency" as her attorney claimed.
She agreed and we'll try to get this resolved on Monday without having to go into court again, saving $3K or so. I told her I'm not going anywhere, even if I ran off with the cash it is just a quarter of what my house is worth. There's no need to run to court every time she gets incited by her attorney. I asked her how much more $ beyond the $5K she needs to move out, I can advance it on the settlement. She's going to call her lawyer on Monday to stop the process.
This whole D process really sucks! It's just taking money from DS's college fund and our retirement!
Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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I had a discussion with WW about her lawyer's courtroom tactics. That was not a good Plan A move.
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They should follow POJA about everything right? Husband should also not go to work unless they are both in enthusiastic agreement. Yep. Why is this forum so sexist about working. I don't get it. There is nothing wrong with a stay at home Dad...is there? Why is it automatically assumed that only husbands work??? I am dumbfounded by this. Financial support is more typically an emotional need of women than of men. THANK YOU.. makes sense 100% FS support IS an emotional need. For most of us men, it is a need we enthusiastically meet for our spouse under certain conditions...when we are appreciated and when our spouse also meets our needs such as domestic support for example. We love to "go kill something" & bring it home and provide for someone we care about (of course women can and do do this just as well as us). The problem with FS for men is when it becomes entitlement. Lost's WW seems very entitled to his financial support. when they no longer appreciate us and they no longer meet our needs or have an affair, we are no longer enthusiastic about meeting this need for them. Dr. Harely says that we should not meet emotional needs in a way that we are not enthusiastic about. I the case of Lost.. the court is going to force him to meet this need for his WS. This is why he is so frustrated and disrespectful. I fully understand why he feels that way.
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Lost's WW seems very entitled to his financial support. The solution to that is NOT for him to express entitlement to her as well, ordering her to get a job. According to Dr. Harley, when your spouse breaks the rules (becomes demanding, disrespectful, or angry), you won't help the situation by breaking the rules yourself (responding with demands, disrespect, or anger). The problem here is not that we don't understand entitlement (disrespect) hurts. The problem here is that we know that demands and disrespect will make the problem worse and can't get certain people to listen!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I had a discussion with WW about her lawyer's courtroom tactics. That was not a good Plan A move. What should I have done? Waste both our time and money? She agreed with me on this too.
Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
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