Shirdon, I would strongly advise you to look into Marriage Builders if you believe the advice you gave here. It is an extremely destructive strategy that is addressed here by Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders:



The rest of the article is here: here

Dr. Harley has pointed out that a complaint is an opportunity to improve in a good marriage and an irritation in a bad marriage. That is very true.

some more from the article:

Thanks Melody!!!

So that brings us back to Jim's situation.

It seems to me, Jim that you DID follow through with some things.

For the last year, you have been working on STOPPING destructive habits, with some success. At least until your wife caught you lying again.

So this is an example of Dr. Harley's point, about how you can stop bad behavior, but unless you introduce the meeting of intimate emotional needs, your marriage won't recover.

So what we need to work on with you, is overcoming your problem with initiating love bank deposits.

Are you working this weekend?

No we are home together all weekend

Can you try this for tomorrow?

Take her to breakfast or lunch, and have some great positive conversation. (Recreational Companionship & Intimate Conversation)

Then go to the movies or bowling? Be affectionate during the movie.
(Recreation Companionship and Affection)

What "should" follow is Sexual Fulfillment. Maybe you could come home after and give her a foot rub or maybe even a long awaited kiss.

Could you do that tomorrow?

Well she has a cold, we just had a long talk and I helped to make her comfortable so I'm not sure that she will be up to doing anything physical like bowling. I will need to take a different approach and just talk to her and help her throughout the weekend. Any ideas on how to be loving when she is sick?

Here's the map to follow...

Recreational Companionship:
Intimate Conversation:
Affection:
Sexual Fulfillment:

Take a stab at a plan here, okay? You can adapt my date idea to work at home, because she's sick, or brainstorm for a different idea. However, you should have it figured out tonight so that you can set things in motion.

I'll wait for you to fill in the blanks...

I am going to respond as if you meant this literally...

You DO need to take a different approach. And NOT just TALK to her. Your wife needs MORE than that. Talking may be safe, but your target is all 4 intimate emotional needs. I know. Scary.

I think one of the most loving things to do when a loved one is sick is to make a big pot of chicken soup. You can ask her to keep you company in the kitchen with a cup of tea for UA while you're chopping the vegetables, and then the whole time it's cooking it smells so good, making little deposits, and then all weekend it's easy to heat her up a cup, and then sit with her for a cup of tea or soup and good conversation. Affection is easy too when you all are sitting on the couch together. I know movies are not UA, but there is nothing like falling asleep on your sweetie's shoulder, wrapped in his arms, when you're sick.

Exactly! Movies are not UA time. Don't include them in your 15 UA hour tally. They work well as a part if a date, on the weekend, when time is more abundant.

One of my favorite dates for when I'm not feeling well:

Husband brings home soup and salad from a popular restaurant.
We eat in bed and then watch a non-stressful movie together.
We stop the movie often, to talk or kiss, etc.
Often ends up in SF.

I am only enthusiastic about including theater movies on our regular dates if:
They are: non-stressful and clean
We have some good UA time with Intimate Conversation before or after, (like restaurant or walking)
My husband cuddles me etc.

One of my husband's favorite forms of recreational companionship is to watch a movie with me right there beside him as his favorite recreational companion. I would also say that movies worked as a weekend date extender to lower our stress levels when we first started our 15 hours. That was a time when conflict and axieties were high. The reason I considered it is that I listened to Dr. Harley when he said that a wife should be by her husband's side when he is most relaxed. We have to get EA for any movie we watch.

So Jim, please think about the goal when considering whether or not a movie is a good idea.

Hey Jim,

I hope that you aren't letting the weekend pass by without organizing DATES with your wife. Just talking to her is not sufficient. Hopefully you had a 4hr stretch of time yesterday, with the goal of meeting all 4 intimate emotional needs.

Having a cold, or busy work season are factors you accommodate by brainstorming. Think about it...if you can date your wife over the next month, it will prove to her that you can do it forever.

What do you say?

P.S.

If you didn't carve out a 4 HR UA plan aka date yesterday, please do it now. If you struggle, let us help. But please don't skip it.

Can you take your wife on a drive and have a car picnic at some scenic spot? See if she would feel like taking a walk? Hold her hand?

Did you listen to the radio show this weekend? It was awesome. Very good topic for you.

Knock. Knock.

Hi DQ, I am here...just been trying to work on some UA time this weekend. I will let you know how it went tomorrow morning or later tonight if possible. It's had some good some bad so far...

Thanks for cking in.

Good and bad are to be expected. Just keep at and adjust based on her feedback.

Remember to try some nonthreatening affection like a foot massage, head massage, hand holding or hugs.

And make sure that tomorrow you get back on your intervals for written affectionate messages and phone calls. Okay?

Hi DQ, I'd like to tell you what happened this weekend.

o We got some UA time on Saturday. Spent the morning cleaning the house and tried to finish up by early afternoon so that we could get out of the house and spend some time alone. My wife was sick with a cold and didn't feel really good but we decided to get out anyway (we decided this together). We went out to eat, did some shopping and just did some walking. It was a nice evening. We had some intimate conversation during the evening. I had my arm around her for most of the evening while we walked. When we got home, we talked for awhile. Mostly about my misdeeds over the years. The topic of my cycling came up and my wife reiterated in great detail the hurt that I caused by my addiction to cycling. She went off to bed angry and hurt. On her way to bed, she said "...its not the kind of thing that a wife wants to hear that her husband had passion for a bicycle but didn't have the same or more passion for his wife".

o Prior to us getting home from our UA time on Saturday, I discussed some more UA time planned for Sunday and suggested that we pop some popcorn and watch the Colorado Avalanche hockey game (my wife is a huge hockey fan and has been looking forward to watching this game for some time now). That seemed to go over well until we got home and started talking. The hockey game did not happen as planned on Sunday.

o We attended church Sunday morning and got to see our son/his wife and the grandsons. It was nice to be together. We then came home, cooked some dinner together and started to talk again. We got into financial issues and work issues. We've got some concerns about having enough $$ for retirement. We're still probably 15 yrs away from this but we haven't saved consistently over the years and are woefully behind. We talked some about me calling my wife throughout the day from work. She doesn't want me to call because she "...knows where this will go". Meaning that she knows that if I show her attention and she starts to enjoy it and gets her hopes built up again that I will just drop her in a few days like I've done in the past and she'll be hurt again. This has happened so much that she is staying emotionally withdrawn. We've been through this cycle a number of times and its been very predictable. I understand why she feels the way that she does. I guess that for me it is very difficult to put myself out there when she is emotionally withdrawn. She can say some horrible things to me when she is withdrawn and historically, I've just shut down in order to protect myself from being hurt. I just clam up and don't say anything. In fact, I don't really know what to say. I think that this is one of those "following my instincts" things and that is why it is so difficult to do anything different. I'm not really sure what to do in those situations; I'm just kind of paralyzed.

o My wife just went to bed and on her way upstairs said that she just wants to be done. She is so tired! She is tired of living this way and doesn't have any faith in me that I will make any real changes.

So, thats where we are right now. I don't have any UA time scheduled for this week yet. My wife was not in the UA frame of mind tonight so we did not talk about plans for the week. I did not even attempt to bring the topic up...

I haven't read the entire thread. Have you taken weekends away? Getting away from the day-to-day life and spending UA time on vacations ALONE can make dramatic deposits into the love bank. My wife and I just got back from a weekend together, and it was amazing. It might take longer for you in your situation, but big chunks away together is huge. I recommend a cruise. All your needs are taken care of and the setting is romantic.

[quote=dividejim]Hi DQ, I'd like to tell you what happened this weekend.
Thanks for updating.

o We got some UA time on Saturday. Spent the morning cleaning the house and tried to finish up by early afternoon so that we could get out of the house and spend some time alone. My wife was sick with a cold and didn't feel really good but we decided to get out anyway (we decided this together). We went out to eat, did some shopping and just did some walking. It was a nice evening. We had some intimate conversation during the evening. I had my arm around her for most of the evening while we walked. When we got home, we talked for awhile. Mostly about my misdeeds over the years. The topic of my cycling came up and my wife reiterated in great detail the hurt that I caused by my addiction to cycling. She went off to bed angry and hurt. On her way to bed, she said "...its not the kind of thing that a wife wants to hear that her husband had passion for a bicycle but didn't have the same or more passion for his wife".
Good job putting your arm around her. She is afraid to enjoy it because she's afraid it won't be enough or it won't last. I see this as a prime opportunity to introduce her to Dr. Harley and Joyce. I would share the radio show from this weekend with her. Once she realizes that you are willing to commit to a program by a psychologist who understands her plight, it may give her more hope. Did you get a chance to listen? The program was about putting an activity in front of your spouse. It will go away at noon EST tomorrow.

o Prior to us getting home from our UA time on Saturday, I discussed some more UA time planned for Sunday and suggested that we pop some popcorn and watch the Colorado Avalanche hockey game (my wife is a huge hockey fan and has been looking forward to watching this game for some time now). That seemed to go over well until we got home and started talking. The hockey game did not happen as planned on Sunday.

o We attended church Sunday morning and got to see our son/his wife and the grandsons. It was nice to be together. We then came home, cooked some dinner together and started to talk again. We got into financial issues and work issues. We've got some concerns about having enough $$ for retirement. We're still probably 15 yrs away from this but we haven't saved consistently over the years and are woefully behind. We talked some about me calling my wife throughout the day from work. She doesn't want me to call because she "...knows where this will go". Meaning that she knows that if I show her attention and she starts to enjoy it and gets her hopes built up again that I will just drop her in a few days like I've done in the past and she'll be hurt again. This has happened so much that she is staying emotionally withdrawn. We've been through this cycle a number of times and its been very predictable. I understand why she feels the way that she does. I guess that for me it is very difficult to put myself out there when she p.pis emotionally withdrawn. She can say some horrible things to me when she is withdrawn and historically, I've just shut down in order to protect myself from being hurt. I just clam up and don't say anything. In fact, I don't really know what to say. I think that this is one of those "following my instincts" things and that is why it is so difficult to do anything different. I'm not really sure what to do in those situations; I'm just kind of paralyzed.

Please recognize her lashing out as a plea for you to prove her wrong. She is frustrated. You cannot expect her to change her reactions at this point because she's not here. What I will say is that she is still open. She is in the state of conflict. So what you need to do is come up with a memorized response that will acknowledge the past and state a goal for the future.
"Honey, I'm sorry that I have disappointed you in the past. I am learning what you need from me so that I don't keep hurting you. I want to take care of you.

o My wife just went to bed and on her way upstairs said that she just wants to be done. She is so tired! She is tired of living this way and doesn't have any faith in me that I will make any real changes.
When she lashes out, acknowledge that you are sorry for the past, and confirm to her that you have a plan for change. Short and simple. She wants to be done with the negativity. She hasn't left. She spends time with you. She talks with you. She's invested.
So when she talks that way, pull out your memorized acknowledgement and Reassure her that you care. It is probablyat least 50 times I said "I'm done" to my husband, while wishing that he would reassure me. It was unfortunate that he didn't feel it would be honest to reassure me because of his track record.

So, thats where we are right now. I don't have any UA time scheduled for this week yet. My wife was not in the UA frame of mind tonight so we did not talk about plans for the week. I did not even attempt to bring the topic up...


That's okay. Make your plan anyway. Just like when people date, you make an idea and then ask if she'll join you. That is your excuse to call her.
She hasn't agreed to 15 hrs and doesn't know the program so don't overwhelm her at this point. Just plan some options and then invite her.

As for her saying not to call...
That is why I asked you not to share your plan with her. This is to gift her a check in, a date invitation, or to throw admiration her way. The worst thing you could do right now is to reinforce her fears by backing off the need meeting. Can you see how ironic that would be? You don't need her agreement to care for her and meet her needs. Last time I heard, you are still married and its technically your obligation. Just Don't discuss it and keep it light.

Can you start hugging her goodbye and hello tomorrow? Maybe a kiss on the cheek? What do you think?

I totally agree. Maybe Plan A cruise for April 16th?

How did 10 and 12 go?

ETA:

What I should be asking is, What did you do when your alarm went off at 10am and 12 pm?