How are you deposits going? Are you being consistent? Are you skipping alarms?

Hi DQ, I am being consistent. I just got off of the phone with my wife. We had a very lengthy conversation. We are on the same cycle that we've been on for years. Things will be better for a few weeks and then she will complain about me not talking to her about resolving our issues again.

I've been purposely avoiding this based on the approach that we've discussed (re creating love bank deposits and focusing on UA). I believe that what I'm doing is helping but I'm obviously not meeting a great need that she has to resolve our issues. I believe that resolving them does not mean stirring up the past and rehashing what we've already hashed through. To me, it means discussing the love busters that caused me to act the way that I did in the various scenarios that I've already told you about (i.e. job, dog, ikea, etc.). Here are a few things that she just told me on the phone that I wrote down:

o you are unreliable, its always hit or miss with you
o why would I depend on you for much of anything
o I never ask her for her input as to what I can do; I always just go off on my own
o my apologies to her don't matter unless there is a behavior change afterwards

So, in a nutshell, for the last 2 weeks (roughly), I have focused on the daily alarms, having UA time, being affectionate and avoiding discussions about any marital issues. It seems to me that everything that I've been doing is fine except the avoidance of discussing relationship issues. This is her hot button. She just thinks that I'm avoiding the discussion and never intend to change anything. I really believe that I need to begin discussing these issues and figure out how to resolve them. This is our big problem...nothing has ever been resolved.

Okay, it sure doesn't feel that way...I understand the withdrawal back into conflict stage.' So now I have an opportunity based on MB principles. I feel the need to address relationship issues. Is this the time and if it is, how do I do it. Seems like the article on negotiating is probably something to adhere to. Is that what you would recommend?

Thanks for putting these habits into place. Keep doing this, even through times of conflict. Don't withdraw, because you are PROVING to her that she CAN depend on you to make her feel important.

To YOU, that's what it means. However, you really aren't sure what it means to her. You have asked us, and we have given our best guesses. It's possible that you are correct, but it's possible that she wants the spilt milk cleaned up...

You have a problem with Guideline #2. Defining the problem from HER perspective.

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The first page of your notebook should have the list she gave you today over the phone.

Okay then. How about we start with the list of things she said today?


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Send her an email that is something like this:
(then text her and tell her that you sent an email to her.)

Wife, today at lunch you brought up some concerns. I want to thank you for bringing this up because I want you to be happy in our marriage. I took some notes so that I can solve these problems, hopefully with your help. I would prefer that we email about this so that I can keep track of the things I need to work on. Can you please read over these notes and tell me if they are accurate?

1. You feel like I am unreliable. It's always hit or miss with me.

2. You don't feel that you can depend on me for much of anything.

3. You feel that I never ask you for input about what I can do; that I go off on my own.

4. My apologies don't matter to you unless I change my behavior afterward.


Is this what you wanted me to hear? I appreciate your helping me to be clear about this.

Love,

Jim

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To be clear:

1. Email your wife about today's list. Then call or text her to tell her that you sent an email.
2. Print out the article.(2 copies, one for you right now, and one for your wife for down the road.)
Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation
3. Buy 2 notebooks. 1 project style & one small one to put in your shirt pocket or you could use a notes app on your phone in place of the small one.)
4. Start studying the article. Highlight areas which have been a problem in the past. Make notes and reminders for yourself.
5. Don't forget about your romantic deposit of the week.
6. Let me know when you have completed these steps. If she responds to your email, come back and let's see if you heard her correctly. Don't approach other issues for now.

DQ, I'm just checking in. I did pick up 2 notebooks this morning. I haven't written anything in them yet. We had another discussion last night for a few hours. Actually, it wasn't a discussion, it was my wife telling me how much hurt I caused her for the last 30 years in relation to my bike addiction. She told me that I never allow her to talk these things out and it feels like I have my hand over her mouth constantly. It feels that way to her because I don't initiate any discussions related to our marital issues and she never gets to talk unless she brings it up. I'll have a few more things to add to my list today.

I will only stick with the first items that I wrote down yesterday that I told you about and approach those with my wife via email today.

I don't like this conflict stage. The hurtful things that are said are very hard to listen to. My wife still brings up me moving out. So in your experience, this really is a good sign that she still cares about the relationship because she is willing to fight? It is so opposite to how my instincts think.

I'm proceeding with the plan at this point...

You need to figure out her current position on your job. This is a currentproblem not a thing of the past. Have you put your job up for negotiation?

I'm new to this conversation but it sounds like didntquit is giving good advice. And apparently your wife is listening. That's encouraging because usually, about 80% of the time when the wife decides to move out it's game over and there is no discussion. So hang in there and keep the conversation going.

Did you tell her that you didn't have empathy for her, but now after reading Lovebusters you understand? Did you apologize and tell her that you are changing? Did you hold her? Did you tell her how hard it is to see the pain you've caused in her? That you wish you could take her pain away?

I would email your wife this morning a note Thanking her for opening up to you last night, acknowledging her pain, apologizing for being thoughtless with the biking and promising to put her above all else for the rest of your life.

Then ask if she would list for you all things she feels you are putting as higher priority than her. Or, that you are doing without her input. Let her know that you would like to solve those problems in a way that would make her happy. ETA: because wife, you ARE most important and I want to make you feel that way.

Can you do this?

Please stick close to my exact points in the email so that you don't inadvertently add lovebusters which would contradict your reaching out.

I added one Very important thing to the letter...
Please see my edit.

I totally agree with that this is a current problem and that it needs to be negotiated.

As I see it, the biggest problem that Jim's wife has, is to know that Jim will make a habit of listening to her complaints, negotiating solutions and following through without her reminding him. Starting this process through email will help with clarity, since they are both super emotional and will unlikely make progress negotiating face to face without Jim's wife telling him to leave again and again.

By showing Jim how to do this, step by step, along with his STUDY of the 4 guidelines, Jim can be the leader of a new, constructive way to solve problems. That is what his wife needs, reassurance that Jim will make it a habit to show up even when he's in the hot seat.

The job thing is big, and will be a complicated and private negotiation. Better to start small. Let's see if his wife is willing to in good faith lay her complaints out in an email, or if she just wants to yell, punish, and have him leave.

DQ - my point was more that Jim says his wife is upset about things in the past, but that isn't correct. The job is a current daily Lovebuster. Notice Jim made progress over the weekend but On Monday he was back at square one.

I agree they should generally start small negotiations first; however, Dr. Harley's solution to an IB or decision that is still causing LB withdrawals is to reset to a time before the IB was executed. I wonder what specific advice Dr. Harley would give Jim.

I don't disagree. In effect, the job issue is a lovebuster as a result of IB. That is why I made the point about spilt milk. He still needs to fix that situation to her liking, even if it means undoing it. Hopefully at this point Jim is clear that his job situation is a present problem. But his bike situation is what she brought up last night. So...Jim needs to start showing that he listened, and allow HER to correct his misunderstandings.

I am trying to help him establish a method of communicating with his wife about problems, one where he can extract her true priorities and preferences instead of being derailed by her emotional outbursts. Ultimately, communicating with US will NOT solve his problems.

This is the goal:


I'm sure that the job situation is one of the top 3. But if we can't teach Jim how to organize her complaints constructively, no problems can be solved. The fact that they had a 3 hour conversation and he is unclear about the highest priority issues tells me that he needs to get to a less emotional venue like email.

I think we have the same goal in mind. Just can't do everything at once. Trying to keep things simple and step by step.

Jim, good job getting the notebooks. Where are you at with things?

So I may have missed this point, Apples. Are you saying that she was happy as long as he is home with het and unhappy when he goes to his job? So you notice the correlation and think that is the root of her frustration?

Is that what you were trying to say?

I called my wife this morning and talked to her about what happened last night and if this is what she needs to do with me. She's not sure but she said that there are times when she just is frustrated and all of the pent up anger and frustration comes out. This is because I've "...had my hand over her mouth for so many years".

I sent her an email asking her to tell me what things she believes are a higher priority to me than she is. I haven't yet heard back from her.

I just got the following note back from my wife in response to my email on what my priorities are...

She said: "Your priority is whatever is happening at the time. You are just a to do list. Whatever there is to do like with xxxx the other night that is what you do without asking me or talking to me or considering my feelings."

The "xxxx" is our daughter. She had called me earlier in the day and wanted to talk to me and I called her and ended up talking to her for about 2 hours. My wife went to bed while we were on the phone. This is what she is referring to.